Spain is Doomed; Youth Unemployment Hits 51%

[Zanza]

Actually, Marty, what the left stands for economically/ideologally, and what it does, is pretty much the same, in Europe anyway

Prominent examples being Blair and Schröder? 

[Malthus]

Consider that this money is supposed to fund a pension. While 30 years of saving 28 K is a lot of money as a lump sum, it doesn't look so large when weighed against the requirements - that this is the money you will need to live off of for the next 20-30 years.

Which is another point I left off: pension plans may be hidden from the employee but are tax advantaged as well.

The issue I have is that this is in addition to social security. A person maxing out these accounts is probably going to be close to the max for social security, so we already have a base income of nearly $30k in retirement (in the US at least). Now lets just assume that our investments on the account can only keep pace with inflation: you can now pull out about another $30k a year in retirement (roughly 30 years of contributions offsetting roughly 30 years of drawing on the money). An income of $60k is not super rich by any stretch: but it is also above average and comfortably middle class. Is that something that needs to be subsidized by the general public? We aren't talking about making sure old people aren't destitute anymore.

Well, tax-advantaged savings were never about making sure old folks aren't destitute - they were always about allowing people who perhaps did not have an employment-based pension (the majority of people these days) to live in reasonable comfort. I can't see why this is a bad thing, myself.

[Jacob]

Actually, Marty, what the left stands for economically/ideologally, and what it does, is pretty much the same, in Europe anyway, so I don't think I am committing any fallacy by disliking them, apart from disagreeing with you.

I can tell you that no Scandinavian leftist parties act the way you describe.

[Iormlund]

Actually, Marty, what the left stands for economically/ideologally, and what it does, is pretty much the same, in Europe anyway, so I don't think I am committing any fallacy by disliking them, apart from disagreeing with you.

Heh. Our "socialists" increased sales tax, lowered max income tax rates and set up a low flat tax on capital. Up until last month they were also the only ones to have reformed the labour market.

The only difference between right and left in this country is their social agenda.

[Eddie Teach]

Heh. Our "socialists" increased sales tax, lowered max income tax rates and set up a low flat tax on capital. Up until last month they were also the only ones to have reformed the labour market.

The only difference between right and left in this country is their social agenda.

A wealth tax sounds pretty socialist to me, flat rate or no.

Or did you mean capital gains?

[Iormlund]

Yes, capital gains.

[Razgovory]

I think you suffer from the same fallacy that Tamas does - i.e. you both come from badly organized countries ruled by highly corrupt coteries. You then use their corruption as an argument against their nominal political ideologies.

I have recently viewed the Portuguese corruption first hand, by having a closer look at a major banking group in your country and its ties with the government. You guys make Poland look like transparency international poster boy.

I think you have a point there.  Of course, I think the same applies to Poland when compared to say the UK or the US.

[crazy canuck]

I just got around to reading this weeks economist.  There is an article regarding how the Canadian public sector pension funds (like the Ontario Teachers fund) is becoming a model others wish to emulate.

In particular the Economist compliments them on cutting costs by doing their investing in house and thus cutting out all the expensive fees of middle men managers and on paying large bonuses for long term gains (rather than the quarterly bonuses common in investment houses) which creates incentives for long term trading strategies.

[Admiral Yi]

The thing I found most interesting about that article is how many private equity deals the Canadian pension funds are doing. [Bain] 

[crazy canuck]

The thing I found most interesting about that article is how many private equity deals the Canadian pension funds are doing. [Bain] 

Yeah, I had to laugh about the poke the economist made at the private equity managers who thought they could not compete on price because the Canadians had longer time horizons and less pressure to show quarterly earnings.  All the finaincial folks who want to invest my money keep talking about investing for the future but it took me a while to find someone who actually does.

[jimmy olsen]

Let me preface by saying that I agree with Jacob on a philosophical/ideological level - i.e. that we can't see old people starving to death in a civilized society.

Really? Then you don't understand the Liberal mindset very well, do you.

Over here, in order to reduce the deficit without raising taxes on the rich (but hiking them by over 10% on the poor), the highborn Liberals who run the government brilliantly decided to shut down this year most public hospitals, in particular those in the interior, which served small communities.

THEN they hiked by 500% the price of an ambulance trip from those places to the hospitals in the litoral, AND jacked up by 100% the price of an examination by a public doctor.

As the elderly of the interior usually have pensions of USD $4k a year, they cannot afford health care anymore.

The result: the death rate among the elderly increased threefold in the first quarter of this year.

The Liberals in power are "very amazed" at this "odd" turn of events and promised an investigation by a parliamentary commission (which undoubtably will find *no* correlation between shutting down the hospitals to the poor and a massive increase of the death rate of the same right afterwards).

You're using the European definition of liberal though, not the American one.

[DGuller]

The thing I found most interesting about that article is how many private equity deals the Canadian pension funds are doing. [Bain] 

Yeah, I had to laugh about the poke the economist made at the private equity managers who thought they could not compete on price because the Canadians had longer time horizons and less pressure to show quarterly earnings.  All the finaincial folks who want to invest my money keep talking about investing for the future but it took me a while to find someone who actually does.

They are investing for the future.  Just not your future.

[crazy canuck]

They are investing for the future. 

"They" are?  I suppose if you define future as the results in the next quarter most of them are.