D&D 4th Ed. Character building

[Neil]

Another common complaint was that there were too many powerful good-aligned NPCs in the Realms, and that having people like Elminster, Khelben, the Seven Sisters, Drizzt, the Harpers at Twilight Hall, Vangerdahast, Nain Keenwhistler, Savengriff, Malchor Harpell and the like meant that the players weren't able to have adventures without these people butting in.  Thus, the solution was to either kill them as a result of the Spellplague, or have them die of old age.

Huh?  There were tons of way overpowered badguys also.  I never recall the mighty NPCs being much of a problem.

Overpowered bad guys were fine.  It was the good guys that were the problem, since many people whined about how they would just show up and solve all the players' problems.  Of course, that was bad GMing, but the whiny masses have spoken.

[Valmy]

Overpowered bad guys were fine.  It was the good guys that were the problem, since many people whined about how they would just show up and solve all the players' problems.  Of course, that was bad GMing, but the whiny masses have spoken.

Yeah I do not get that at all.  You don't have to have Elminster port in and save you when the Chultan Yuan-Tis are about to sacrifice you.

[crazy canuck]

My guess is they didnt want to go to all the work of converting all the NPCs to 4th edition rules.

Actually, there aren't any published NPCs anymore.  They just have the one 4th edition Forgotten Realms book that summarizes the realms, the gods and some of the evil organizations of the Realms.  Highly detailed supplements are a thing of the past.

So they are even more lazy then I had guessed.  Why would anyone buy that then.  Why not just use all the old source materials...

[saskganesh]

I suppose it must be rough on people to have the physical rules of your universe change ever 8 years or so.

IMO, it was more fun to do your own world building, and plunder published world's for ideas. best part of being a GM ... and likely the best applied use of a history and literature degree. 

[Neil]

My guess is they didnt want to go to all the work of converting all the NPCs to 4th edition rules.

Actually, there aren't any published NPCs anymore.  They just have the one 4th edition Forgotten Realms book that summarizes the realms, the gods and some of the evil organizations of the Realms.  Highly detailed supplements are a thing of the past.

So they are even more lazy then I had guessed.  Why would anyone buy that then.  Why not just use all the old source materials...

More cheap than lazy, I suspect.

Indeed, buying the 4th Edition Realms for any reason other than shock value would be a mistake.  And even then, you shouldn't encourage them with money.

[Valmy]

So they are even more lazy then I had guessed.  Why would anyone buy that then.  Why not just use all the old source materials...

In the past I would have been worried about the CRPGs being effected by WOTC shenanigans...but the good companies are doing their own IPs these days so I can safely just pretend none of this stuff is actually happening.

[Cecil]

My guess is they didnt want to go to all the work of converting all the NPCs to 4th edition rules.

Actually, there aren't any published NPCs anymore.  They just have the one 4th edition Forgotten Realms book that summarizes the realms, the gods and some of the evil organizations of the Realms.  Highly detailed supplements are a thing of the past.

So they are even more lazy then I had guessed.  Why would anyone buy that then.  Why not just use all the old source materials...

More cheap than lazy, I suspect.

Indeed, buying the 4th Edition Realms for any reason other than shock value would be a mistake.  And even then, you shouldn't encourage them with money.

Indeed. You should smite them for 4th ed realms.

[crazy canuck]

IMO, it was more fun to do your own world building, and plunder published world's for ideas. best part of being a GM ... and likely the best applied use of a history and literature degree. 

That was always the fun part for me.

[Jacob]

Overpowered bad guys were fine.  It was the good guys that were the problem, since many people whined about how they would just show up and solve all the players' problems.  Of course, that was bad GMing, but the whiny masses have spoken.

It's pretty funny how you're talking about "the whiny masses" while whining so much about the changes.

[Valmy]

It's pretty funny how you're talking about "the whiny masses" while whining so much about the changes.

We are simply pointing out the facts.

[Jacob]

We are simply pointing out the facts.

No.  You are whining.  The nerdrage is strong in both of you, especially given you haven't actually played the new game.

[Valmy]

No.  You are whining.  The nerdrage is strong in both of you, especially given you haven't actually played the new game.

The only reason I have not played the new game was because my game group was cancelled because one of the players got the flu and I got married and went on a Honeymoon.  We are due to start up again soon.  So you can stop bashing me for that.

Secondly nerdrage is what the Game forum is all about.  Feel the magic or get out of the way I say.

[Jacob]

The only reason I have not played the new game was because my game group was cancelled because one of the players got the flu and I got married and went on a Honeymoon.  We are due to start up again soon.  So you can stop bashing me for that.

I'll stop bashing you for it once you've played it.  You see, the bashing is not about your intention to play the game but about you talking with great conviction about something you haven't had experience with 

Secondly nerdrage is what the Game forum is all about.  Feel the magic or get out of the way I say.

I'm feeling the magic and I'm laughing at it.

Like this: 

[Valmy]

I have experienced the FR campaign setting for years.  Stories and changes that were lame in 2nd Ed are still lame in 4th Ed.

I'm feeling the magic and I'm laughing at it

Unfortunately you come off more as a 4th Ed fanboi who cries whenever we say something mean about it.  Even if the plot of the FR campaign setting has nothing to do with the rules changes of 4th Ed.

[Neil]

I suppose it must be rough on people to have the physical rules of your universe change ever 8 years or so.

IMO, it was more fun to do your own world building, and plunder published world's for ideas. best part of being a GM ... and likely the best applied use of a history and literature degree. 

When I was rather young, my friends and I played D&D based on the map of Europe.  Our adventuring party conquered the island of Elba, because it seemed about the right size.