Marines posed with flag resembling Nazi SS logo in Afghanistan

[11B4V]

Same-same just dif color.

Wrong.  The SS images are designed purposefully to be angular at both the base and the top, and the middle bars are at an angle as well, to give it a "lighting bolt" effect.



The KISS design is flat at both the base, the top and the middle bars.



More like KISS, less like SS.

Well look it's the Master Race.....er no a KISS fan. 

[Admiral Yi]

I bet he's got a single serving plate.

I bet he could outfit and arm a kampfgruppe.

[Razgovory]

Berkut's mad because I used the same tactic against him that he uses against me.  I said he wasn't being reasonable due to some tribal affiliation.  That's his line.  Every fact supports exactly supports Berkuts arguments even if the fact is new to him and contradicts his previous "Fact".  Berkut can't see a fact that supports a different argument.  I don't know why he gets like this.

If it was a Swastika Berkut would understand since only Nazis used it.

Depends on why I think they are using it - does the swastika have any use OTHER THAN as a representation of the Nazi's? I don't know of one myself, so I would in fact assume that someone using a swastika, no matter what color, is an attempt to associate themselves to the Nazis. I suppose I could be convinced otherwise though, but it would be a tough sell.

Except now when it shown that it false, the new fact that it has seen many uses past and present also prove Berkut's point.

It couldn't the same as the Nazi symbol because it doesn't have a skull and the spacing is different and the color is different.  Except that that the color and spacing were not consistant in Nazi Symbolism and the deaths Head was not necessarily for that particular image.

It couldn't be the same as the Nazi symbol because it's just a stylized "S".  Except the Nazi symbol was not a stylized "S".

It couldn't be the same as the Nazi symbol because it's just a lighting bolt.  and so on.


There is NO fact that would convince Berkut that he is wrong about that flag.

[LaCroix]

bet you wish raz had you on ignore, berkut

[Habbaku]

bet you wish raz had you on ignore, berkut

I wonder if Raz can see your posts when they're quoted.   

[11B4V]

I still don't understand why this seems so hard to believe.

I think they chose it for the exact same reason the SS chose it - because lightning bolt S's look cool.

Unfortunately Berkut the evil wicked SS used it before these Marines. The SS demonized it.

Are *you* personally offended by them using that font? I mean beyond being annoyed that they would do so because *others* will be offended?

No, certaining not. My first reaction, *Chuckle* then, "This will go over like a turd in a punch bowl". But the reality remains that this gives off bad PR.

[CountDeMoney]

Well look it's the Master Race.....er no a KISS fan. 

Now you're just being douchey. 

[LaCroix]

I wonder if Raz can see your posts when they're quoted.   

he can

[Valmy]

No, certaining not. My first reaction, *Chuckle* then, "This will go over like a turd in a punch bowl". But the reality remains that this gives off bad PR.

Yep.  This was my precise reaction.  Cannot do that dudes.

[Berkut]

Berkut's mad because I used the same tactic against him that he uses against me.  I said he wasn't being reasonable due to some tribal affiliation.  That's his line.

No, it isn't. This is not a discussion on politics Raz.

Every fact supports exactly supports Berkuts arguments even if the fact is new to him and contradicts his previous "Fact".  Berkut can't see a fact that supports a different argument.  I don't know why he gets like this.

No, the point was made that the swastika has been historically used to mean things other than Nazis. That is factually correct, and supports my point that the symbol's context defines whether its use is offensive.

If it was a Swastika Berkut would understand since only Nazis used it.

That is true today, so far as I know. I've never seen a swastika used in contemporary society except as a symbol to represent Nazism. Like I said though - I could be wrong, and you could convince me otherwise, although it would be tough to do so, since it is such a well known symbol with little use outside its nazi reference.

Depends on why I think they are using it - does the swastika have any use OTHER THAN as a representation of the Nazi's? I don't know of one myself, so I would in fact assume that someone using a swastika, no matter what color, is an attempt to associate themselves to the Nazis. I suppose I could be convinced otherwise though, but it would be a tough sell.

Except now when it shown that it false, the new fact that it has seen many uses past and present also prove Berkut's point.

No, you have NOT shown it to be false - a swastika has no use TODAY except as a representation of nazism. We are all well aware that the Nazis did not invent the symbol. Hell, that was pointed out in this very thread before the post you are quoting.

So yes, in fact it does support my argument. The meaning of any symbol is dependent upon its context. Even a symbol as univeraslly despised as a swastika does not necessarily mean the person using it is a nazi.

It couldn't the same as the Nazi symbol because it doesn't have a skull and the spacing is different and the color is different.

Now you are just lying. I did not say it could not be the same, I said that if they wanted it to be the same, they did a poor job of it, and it would be trivially easy to make the connection unambguous by just adding more to the symbol that would make the association clear, like a deathshead insignia. Or hell, how about a swastika?

Except that that the color and spacing were not consistant in Nazi Symbolism and the deaths Head was not necessarily for that particular image.

Doesn't matter whether it was necessary, the SS soldiers didn't have any issue with making sure people knew what their 'SS' meant.

The US Marines, not so much.

It couldn't be the same as the Nazi symbol because it's just a stylized "S".  Except the Nazi symbol was not a stylized "S".

I did not say it could not be the same, I said the similarity was possibly coincidental. Stop lying.

It couldn't be the same as the Nazi symbol because it's just a lighting bolt.  and so on.

Again, you are just making things up about what I said. Why?

There is NO fact that would convince Berkut that he is wrong about that flag.

Sure there is - give me a quote from one of those men saying "Oh yeah, we were totally all about how awesome the SS were, and how we think we should be just like them!"

Then I would find their position offensive.

You are right - there is no "fact" that can be provided about the history of swastikas that can convince me that I should be offended by a picture of some Marine Scout Snipers with a "SS" on a flag and an explanation from them that the SS stands for "Scout Sniper".

[Berkut]

I still don't understand why this seems so hard to believe.

I think they chose it for the exact same reason the SS chose it - because lightning bolt S's look cool.

Unfortunately Berkut the evil wicked SS used it before these Marines. The SS demonized it.

Are *you* personally offended by them using that font? I mean beyond being annoyed that they would do so because *others* will be offended?

No, certaining not. My first reaction, *Chuckle* then, "This will go over like a turd in a punch bowl". But the reality remains that this gives off bad PR.

Ahh, so we agree then. Prepare for incoming from Raz and Marty.

[Berkut]

No, certaining not. My first reaction, *Chuckle* then, "This will go over like a turd in a punch bowl". But the reality remains that this gives off bad PR.

Yep.  This was my precise reaction.  Cannot do that dudes.

Then why have you been arguing with my contention that there is nothing there to get offended about, other than the stupidity of giving people who want to be offended an excuse to do so?

[11B4V]

The U.S. Marine Corps confirmed Thursday that a sniper team in Afghanistan posed for a photograph in front of a flag with a logo resembling that of the notorious Nazi SS. Use of the SS symbol is not acceptable, and the Marine Corps has addressed the issue, Lt. Col. Stewart Upton said in a statement.

If it wasnt a big deal, the Corps wouldnt have said it's not acceptable.

Besides society collectively says it's not acceptable. There was a time when fags were not acceptable now look at them. Course the gay community didnt start a world war and gas/bbq 6 mil jews either.

[Razgovory]

I'm not going to have quote war with you Berkut.  Simply because it's not Democrat or Republican doesn't mean it isn't "Political".  We are discussing whether they ( a fighting unit for a political union, the US)) are displaying symbol of paramilitary wing of a political party.  That is political.  Since you missed it the first time I posted it it still is used as symbol for Jainism.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism  They did not change their symbol beacuse of the Nazis (though the 45th Infantry division of the US army did I believe). 

In point of fact, I did say that I was not personally offended.  I was thought it was stupid.  You might have missed that because you keep calling me a liar and seem somewhat busy with that.

Actually, I doubt that any quote would convince you since you would immediately brush it off as a required mea culpa forced by the Army to appear the evil Marty's of the world and the rest of the "PC" squad.

[Razgovory]

No, certaining not. My first reaction, *Chuckle* then, "This will go over like a turd in a punch bowl". But the reality remains that this gives off bad PR.

Yep.  This was my precise reaction.  Cannot do that dudes.

Then why have you been arguing with my contention that there is nothing there to get offended about, other than the stupidity of giving people who want to be offended an excuse to do so?

Dude, the person most wound up on this you.