Fighting reaches the gates of Damscus!

[FunkMonk]

I'm too slow. 

[Ed Anger]

Fuck 'em. Fuck every towelhead nation. Fucking barbs.

[derspiess]

Damn Scus

[Darth Wagtaros]

Not a good sign for the people in Damascus.

Well, that's true.

Don't think it'll be a good sign for the Alawi, Druze, Christians, or Jews when the current government goes down in flames.

[Eddie Teach]

Damn Scus

I was surprised people let the typo slide til the second page. 

[Mr.Penguin]

Not a good sign for the people in Damascus.

Well, that's true.

Don't think it'll be a good sign for the Alawi, Druze, Christians, or Jews when the current government goes down in flames.

Lets just say anyone who are not main stream sunni...

[Sheilbh]

So what is the world waiting for to be more vocal, or do even something more tangible, to support the Syrian people? Instead of watching the slaughter, and saying little. This has been going on long enough, but our leaders seem afraid of taking sides. Probably in case Assad wins in the end so would become more difficult to deal with, if that's possible.

Well everyone's been vocal in condemnation - except for Iran, Iraq, Lebanon and a few other states.  Even the Arab League suspended the Syrian Arab Republic which was quite a statement.  The reason we've not intervened is because the Syrians haven't wanted us to, unlike in Libya and I'm not sure imposing a no-fly zone which would be what we do would make any difference.  Having said that the Turks have supported intervention, I think the French and British are keen too but the Russians are very against it and, indeed, shipping arms to the Syrian regime (via Cyprus - which should be against some EU law).  If not a no-fly zone I think intervention would be the Turks and Jordanians invading and setting up 'safe zones' for refugees.  The Turks have suggested they'd be willing to do this with a UN resolution.

If Assad falls I imagine what would happen in Syria is similar to what's happened in the rest of the Arab revolts.  There'd be steps towards a messy and difficult transition to democracy (Syria is like the Eastern Bloc of the Arab world so it'd be especially tough there).  I imagine the Syrian Muslim Brothers would win.  They're more conservative than the Egyptians and far more conservative than the Tunisians.  But I don't think that's something we should fear.  The Arab world is democratising and the dominant force will be political Islam.  Neither of those things are bad, especially compared to what we have.  We need to learn to deal with political Islam.  I think the presence of the Brothers in Davos is a good start on an elite level.

Certainly the people may have a chance. But I'm not sold yet on better governments and some forms of democracy breaking out from Arab Spring uprisings.

Almost 100 million more people live in countries with election - if not full democracy - than did this time last year.

We'll see where we are this time next years.  Things are changing in Yemen; there are protests in Algeria; the Saudis have just hugely increased the pay of soldiers and policemen; and I don't think Jordan and Morocco are done yet.  Western governments should now keep the pressure on Bahrain and Palestine for elections and reform.

[Admiral Yi]

Pressure on Palestine for what?  I thought the ex-IMF dude was running a pretty clean government in the West Bank.  It's not his fault that Hamas is dicking around in Gaza.

[Sheilbh]

Pressure on Palestine for what?  I thought the ex-IMF dude was running a pretty clean government in the West Bank.  It's not his fault that Hamas is dicking around in Gaza.

Elections.

[Admiral Yi]

Elections.

Please elaborate.  I thought the PA was doing a good job with elections.

[Sheilbh]

Elections.

Please elaborate.  I thought the PA was doing a good job with elections.

They've not had one since 2006.  They were meant to be held in 2010.  There's been ongoing negotiations between Fatah and Hamas about having them in 2012.  I believe a date's been set in May 2012.  But the PA refuses to have elections in the West Bank without them happening in Gaza too, rightly.

The West keeps on saying we want them to have elections but then are more than happy to let them be continually postponed.  It's difficult to get Hamas to agree to one though.  The reports are that chances are Hamas would lose Gaza, especially because the electoral system's been moved to PR instead of FPTP.

Fayyed is doing a very good job as PM, but he's the Mario Monti of the Arab world.  No democratic mandate, no party, no political base.  He's just a technocrat.

Edit:  And Fatah have caused problems in negotiations too.  I think they wanted them shortly after Abbas's speech to the UN for independence - which gave Fatah a boost - then wanted them postponed after the Shalit prisoner swap gave Hamas a boost and so on.  Hamas worry that they'll lose Gaza but Fatah are trying to play them too.

[derspiess]

Elections.

Please elaborate.  I thought the PA was doing a good job with elections.

They've not had one since 2006.  They were meant to be held in 2010.  There's been ongoing negotiations between Fatah and Hamas about having them in 2012.  I believe a date's been set in May 2012.  But the PA refuses to have elections in the West Bank without them happening in Gaza too, rightly.

The West keeps on saying we want them to have elections but then are more than happy to let them be continually postponed.  It's difficult to get Hamas to agree to one though.  The reports are that chances are Hamas would lose Gaza, especially because the electoral system's been moved to PR instead of FPTP.

Fayyed is doing a very good job as PM, but he's the Mario Monti of the Arab world.  No democratic mandate, no party, no political base.  He's just a technocrat.

Edit:  And Fatah have caused problems in negotiations too.  I think they wanted them shortly after Abbas's speech to the UN for independence - which gave Fatah a boost - then wanted them postponed after the Shalit prisoner swap gave Hamas a boost and so on.  Hamas worry that they'll lose Gaza but Fatah are trying to play them too.

I think we ought to tone down our demands for elections, democracy, etc.  Looking at how democracy works in the Arab world makes me think that the concept of democracy is a bit overrated.

[mongers]

Elections.

Please elaborate.  I thought the PA was doing a good job with elections.

They've not had one since 2006.  They were meant to be held in 2010.  There's been ongoing negotiations between Fatah and Hamas about having them in 2012.  I believe a date's been set in May 2012.  But the PA refuses to have elections in the West Bank without them happening in Gaza too, rightly.

The West keeps on saying we want them to have elections but then are more than happy to let them be continually postponed.  It's difficult to get Hamas to agree to one though.  The reports are that chances are Hamas would lose Gaza, especially because the electoral system's been moved to PR instead of FPTP.

Fayyed is doing a very good job as PM, but he's the Mario Monti of the Arab world.  No democratic mandate, no party, no political base.  He's just a technocrat.

Edit:  And Fatah have caused problems in negotiations too.  I think they wanted them shortly after Abbas's speech to the UN for independence - which gave Fatah a boost - then wanted them postponed after the Shalit prisoner swap gave Hamas a boost and so on.  Hamas worry that they'll lose Gaza but Fatah are trying to play them too.

I think we ought to tone down our demands for elections, democracy, etc.  Looking at how democracy works in the Arab world makes me think that the concept of democracy is a bit overrated.

Trust me, I'd really like to see democracy in Saudi Arabia now. 

[Admiral Yi]

Elections.

Please elaborate.  I thought the PA was doing a good job with elections.

They've not had one since 2006.  They were meant to be held in 2010.  There's been ongoing negotiations between Fatah and Hamas about having them in 2012.  I believe a date's been set in May 2012.  But the PA refuses to have elections in the West Bank without them happening in Gaza too, rightly.

The West keeps on saying we want them to have elections but then are more than happy to let them be continually postponed.  It's difficult to get Hamas to agree to one though.  The reports are that chances are Hamas would lose Gaza, especially because the electoral system's been moved to PR instead of FPTP.

Fayyed is doing a very good job as PM, but he's the Mario Monti of the Arab world.  No democratic mandate, no party, no political base.  He's just a technocrat.

Edit:  And Fatah have caused problems in negotiations too.  I think they wanted them shortly after Abbas's speech to the UN for independence - which gave Fatah a boost - then wanted them postponed after the Shalit prisoner swap gave Hamas a boost and so on.  Hamas worry that they'll lose Gaza but Fatah are trying to play them too.

I think we ought to tone down our demands for elections, democracy, etc.  Looking at how democracy works in the Arab world makes me think that the concept of democracy is a bit overrated.

I have something to add, but I'll save it for later.
Trust me, I'd really like to see democracy in Saudi Arabia now. 

[jimmy olsen]

Homs is getting pummeled. Over 200 dead in the last day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/world/middleeast/syria-homs-death-toll-said-to-rise.html