Worst Commander of the Army of the Potomac?

[Richard Hakluyt]

Was it politically possible for Lincoln to replace McClellan quite a lot earlier?

He seems to have done a decent job of constructing the army, but just didn't know how to use it.

[Viking]

McDowell - didn't actually get to command the army. Was following from the generals tent at Bull Run. His generaling can be summed up by the phrase "Hey guys lets go to Mannasses."

McClellan - had some excellent qualities and never forget that he built the Army of the Potomac. McClellan's Army charged Mary's Heights at Fredricksburg, McClellan's Army held Little Round Top and McClellan's Army filled up the Crater. He built the Army of the Republic. Usually the "story" of the ACW is brilliant Southern Generals fighting for glory against solid Union Soldiers fighting for the Union and to make men free. McClellans unwillingness to fight is the fatal flaw.

John Pope - was sabotaged by McClellan and his staff. That said, 2nd Bull Run was really badly generaled. Pope could justifiably argue that his McClellan friendly staff  or Stonewall Jackson was the deciding factor rather than himself.

Ambrose Burnside - had the great virtue of knowing he wasn't suited for command at Army level. He marched quickly and almost caught Lee out of position. Delays in getting bridging equipment meant that rather than marching on Richmond he had to assault Mary's heights. At this point the good commander would have refused to attack. Burnside was a good soldier and followed orders, he could have been a great general and sought a battle on better ground.

Joseph Hooker - much like Burnside, moved quickly and did catch Lee out of position. Then had mental breakdown and ceased to be a factor.

George Meade - cautious and careful. Like McClellan after Antitam he refused to pursue after Gettysburg.

U.S. Grant - was never Commander of the AoP, Meade was his army commander. Grant realized what was needed to end the war with victory and agreed with Lincoln. He promptly did that. However he was rightly criticized for his bloody advance through virginia.



To be blunt, once McClellan builds the army the failures are (with the exception of Pope who got fucked over by his staff) at command level. Though, strangely Burnside at Fredricksburg suggests that McClellans caution was sensible and Meads non-pursuite after Gettysburg suggests that McClellans non-pursuite after Antietam was not just his mental issue. All the non-Grant generals didn't understand what was needed to win the War. Burnside and Hooker were able to move their armies into position quickly and aggressively putting Lee in tough positions. McClelland and Mead were not able to move but they were able to win their battles. Pope got fucked over by his staff while McDowell was merelly present during his battle.

I have to vote for McDowell for the simple reason that while he was Commander of the Army he was not in "command". He had none of the virtues of Burnside, Hooker, McClelland or Meade but all of their faults. Pope and Hooker managed to have armies in the field when Stonewall Jackson ambushed them, McDowell had an unsteady rabble when Jackson arrived. 

[The Brain]

McJaron.

[CountDeMoney]

Was it politically possible for Lincoln to replace McClellan quite a lot earlier?

He seems to have done a decent job of constructing the army, but just didn't know how to use it.

Yes, particularly since so many in Congress despised McClellan. But there was a tremendous amount of pressure Lincoln was dealing with regarding McClellan from other elements on the Hill, the press and the populace, particularly at the outset.  McClellan was a known figure at the time, and everything that McClellan had done or accomplished in his career said "this is the guy" to Lincoln, who was humble enough to leave military matters to military men.   Even Robert E. Lee said he was one of America's ablest soldiers.

The political value of his victories surrounding Rich Mountain outweighed the military value, but while the AotP was getting its teeth kicked in, there was this young major general recently recalled from civilian life with less then 10,000 troops under his command, met rebel forces several times larger than his own in western Virginia, beat them at every turn and swept his region of the enemy.  The press sucked it up, and he proved he could win.  And Lincoln waited for that McClellan to appear.

Fucker voted for Douglas, though.

Even when Lincoln acknowledged that McClellan had "the slows" and was not as aggressive as he would've wanted him to be, Lincoln knew McClellan to be a superior engineer and administrator who could build the army he wanted.  Hell, that's why he reappointed him to the AtP the second time, to rebuild a demoralized force.  It was Lincoln who was the last to want to replace McClellan.

[grumbler]

John Pope - was sabotaged by McClellan and his staff. That said, 2nd Bull Run was really badly generaled. Pope could justifiably argue that his McClellan friendly staff  or Stonewall Jackson was the deciding factor rather than himself.

Pope did argue that he was betrayed and it wasn't his fault that he got hopelessly "suppressed" by a less-numerous foe whose location and intentions were simply unknowable.  The Schofield inquiry (hose conclusions were backed by Grant, Sherman, and Thomas) demonstrated that his excuses were bullshit and he was just an incompetent fuck who could have been beaten by a pack of cranky Cub Scouts.  The fact that Pope tried to weasel out of his own blunders by throwing his staff under the bus simply reinforces the historical verdict that he was a serious contender for the worst general of all time. 

[Kleves]

McClellan's Army filled up the Crater. He built the Army of the Republic.

Not a lot of black soldiers in McClellan's army.

[Kleves]

The fact that Pope tried to weasel out of his own blunders by throwing his staff under the bus simply reinforces the historical verdict that he was a serious contender for the worst general of all time.

Wasn't one of McClellan's cronies - Franklin, I think - cashiered for disobeying Pope's orders during 2nd Bull Run?

[11B4V]

John Pope - was sabotaged by McClellan and his staff. That said, 2nd Bull Run was really badly generaled. Pope could justifiably argue that his McClellan friendly staff  or Stonewall Jackson was the deciding factor rather than himself.

Pope did argue that he was betrayed and it wasn't his fault that he got hopelessly "suppressed" by a less-numerous foe whose location and intentions were simply unknowable.  The Schofield inquiry (hose conclusions were backed by Grant, Sherman, and Thomas) demonstrated that his excuses were bullshit and he was just an incompetent fuck who could have been beaten by a pack of cranky Cub Scouts.  The fact that Pope tried to weasel out of his own blunders by throwing his staff under the bus simply reinforces the historical verdict that he was a serious contender for the worst general of all time.

I believe Porter was vindicated of  sorts after the war.

[11B4V]

The fact that Pope tried to weasel out of his own blunders by throwing his staff under the bus simply reinforces the historical verdict that he was a serious contender for the worst general of all time.

Wasn't one of McClellan's cronies - Franklin, I think - cashiered for disobeying Pope's orders during 2nd Bull Run?

I think you mean Fritz-John Porter

[grumbler]

I believe Porter was vindicated of  sorts after the war.

Completely vindicated by the Schofield inquiry.  Grant, Lee, Sherman, Longstreet, and Thomas all prominently supported this vindication, even though Pope was a darling of the Radical Republicans and still as prominent a political general as there was in the post-war army.

Porter's court-martial didn't rehabilitate Pope in the way Pope and his allies had desired (it was just too obvious that Pope never had a clue as to how to command troops or conduct operations), but it allowed the administration to avoid the embarrassment of actually rusticating him, and he was sent off to commit atrocities against the Sioux.

[Valmy]

U.S. Grant - was never Commander of the AoP, Meade was his army commander. Grant realized what was needed to end the war with victory and agreed with Lincoln. He promptly did that. However he was rightly criticized for his bloody advance through virginia.

Meh hard to defeat The Army of Northern Virginia without getting anybody hurt.  Lee was not going to be strategically or tactically tricked, you were going to have to wear him down.

Anyway I think Pope certainly stands out.  He and McDowell were the only ones to be routed.  At least when McClellan ran away he did so because he was a coward and did so with proper military precision.

[The Minsky Moment]

Did Pope ever command the AoP?

[Kleves]

Did Pope ever command the AoP?

I believe his army was, technically, the Army of Virginia; though it was made up of troops who had been/would be part of the Army of the Potomac.

[Valmy]

Did Pope ever command the AoP?

His army contained three corps from the AoP

[The Minsky Moment]

Hmm . . . don't see how Pope can be attacked for his command for the "Army of the Potomac" for the same period of time that someone else is in command of a formation with the same name.