Roman Succession

[Razgovory]

Persia also still exists.

I looked all over the map.  I can't find Persia anywhere  Interestingly it's hard to find any any state with continuous government that lasts to long.  By continuous I mean, a government that isn't overthrown or conquered or otherwise altered fundamentally through violent means.  For instance I would consider Britain to have continuous government since King William III.  Despite changing royal houses and slowly evolving into a democratic state there was no revolutionary violence that radically altered the government.  While Japan has only had continuous government since the 1950's even though it technically is still an empire and head of state reigned before the current constitution (and before it was conquered). 

Curiously that means the US which is a fairly new nation has one of the oldest continuous governments in the world.

[Razgovory]

Oh, Jesus fucking Christ, Tim, that's like saying Italy exists.

The Romans are rolling over in their graves at that insult.

Oh I don't think that would be that bothered by it.  They crucified the man after all.

[Ed Anger]

Howso?
With the pope you mean?

I think he is talking about the shadow Emperors controlled by German Generals.

Only good one in the bunch was Majorian, and Ricimer likely had him killed.

[Josquius]

I have to say I agree with Tim.
China is, and pretty much always has been, still there. Even on occasions where it was divided it was just a case of there being multiple claimants to being the true China. Even when foreigners invaded, they simply placed themselves at the head of China.
Continuous government doesn't really matter, interludes and revolutions which keep the same basic nation are fine.,

[dps]

Didn't Augustus make himself "First Citizen" and at least nominally got all of his titles and powers from an adoring Senate?

IIRC that was true for a long time after Augustus--the Emperor was in theory appointed by the Senate.

[Ideologue]

I have to say I agree with Tim.
China is, and pretty much always has been, still there. Even on occasions where it was divided it was just a case of there being multiple claimants to being the true China. Even when foreigners invaded, they simply placed themselves at the head of China.
Continuous government doesn't really matter, interludes and revolutions which keep the same basic nation are fine.,

So basically to reach you and Tim's standard for an empire or nation "not working", it has to be eliminated from the face of the Earth?  I think you've set the bar a little too low.

[Razgovory]

I have to say I agree with Tim.
China is, and pretty much always has been, still there. Even on occasions where it was divided it was just a case of there being multiple claimants to being the true China. Even when foreigners invaded, they simply placed themselves at the head of China.
Continuous government doesn't really matter, interludes and revolutions which keep the same basic nation are fine.,

So basically to reach you and Tim's standard for an empire or nation "not working", it has to be eliminated from the face of the Earth?  I think you've set the bar a little too low.

I suppose any country that hasn't physically sunken into the ocean is still there then.

[The Minsky Moment]

The crisis of the 3rd century crippled the Empire and it never really recovered from the devastation and the instability it generated.

There wasn't that much "devastation" and it did recover quite nicely.

[Ideologue]

I have to say I agree with Tim.
China is, and pretty much always has been, still there. Even on occasions where it was divided it was just a case of there being multiple claimants to being the true China. Even when foreigners invaded, they simply placed themselves at the head of China.
Continuous government doesn't really matter, interludes and revolutions which keep the same basic nation are fine.,

So basically to reach you and Tim's standard for an empire or nation "not working", it has to be eliminated from the face of the Earth?  I think you've set the bar a little too low.

I suppose any country that hasn't physically sunken into the ocean is still there then.

Bangladesh: FAILURE.

[Josquius]

I suppose any country that hasn't physically sunken into the ocean is still there then.

For several hundred years? There are a lot of them yes.
Since year 0? You're looking at a pretty short list. China and Persia are all that immediately stand out.

[Viking]

The crisis of the 3rd century crippled the Empire and it never really recovered from the devastation and the instability it generated.

There wasn't that much "devastation" and it did recover quite nicely.

It's a bit like the War of the Roses. Chaos and trouble and taxes, but little or no wasting of the land. The peasants wouldn't have noticed anything other than increased taxes to pay soldiers.

[Razgovory]

I suppose any country that hasn't physically sunken into the ocean is still there then.

For several hundred years? There are a lot of them yes.
Since year 0? You're looking at a pretty short list. China and Persia are all that immediately stand out.

I don't think there was a "year 0".  I would hardly think that the Parthian Empire or the territory of the Han dynasty could really be call an early form of the Islamic Republic of Iran or the People's Republic of China.  By that metric we could the UK is an extension of Arthurian Briton.

[Josquius]

I don't think there was a "year 0".  I would hardly think that the Parthian Empire or the territory of the Han dynasty could really be call an early form of the Islamic Republic of Iran or the People's Republic of China.  By that metric we could the UK is an extension of Arthurian Briton.

Year 0:
Persia/China/Britain: Persia and China were basically the same people, there's a continuity of civilization there. In Britain meanwhile the English hadn't even shown up yet.

[Razgovory]

I don't think there was a "year 0".  I would hardly think that the Parthian Empire or the territory of the Han dynasty could really be call an early form of the Islamic Republic of Iran or the People's Republic of China.  By that metric we could the UK is an extension of Arthurian Briton.

Year 0:
Persia/China/Britain: Persia and China were basically the same people, there's a continuity of civilization there. In Britain meanwhile the English hadn't even shown up yet.

Are they? Is there really a continuity of civilization?  I imagine that a person living in the PRC would have difficulty talking to someone from the Han empire.  I doubt that a modern Iranian could make much sense of the Parthian language anymore then you or I could make sense of Mercian English.

And don't roll your eyes at me, you were the one who said "Year 0".

[Valmy]

It's a bit like the War of the Roses. Chaos and trouble and taxes, but little or no wasting of the land. The peasants wouldn't have noticed anything other than increased taxes to pay soldiers.

The crisis was hardly a civil war between noble dynasties, didn't all those German Hordes pouring across the border take any loot and kill anybody?  Certain places like North Africa, Egypt, Hispania, and Anatolia got away pretty cleanly though.