Americas Elect 2012 - the Not Party

[Ed Anger]

The detestable creed of centrism claims another victim.

It is so comfy. I can throw anathemas at everybody while doing nothing.

P.S. Smash the proletariat.

[fhdz]

I suppose I just admire pragmatism.

Me too.  The perfect is the enemy of the good.

[fhdz]

The detestable creed of centrism claims another victim.

The thing is, Ide - you don't take your instructions from Pyongyang; you take them from Lulzland. On Languish, if it makes a funny quip or allows you to roll into a fantasia of Fourth Panzer Army Cocks or long-winded descriptions of labor camps that aren't labor camps, it becomes your political position. That's fine; that's all well and good, but it does make your politics - at least as presented here - a bit of a joke. Extremism lends itself well to jokes. There's a reason or two for that which is probably worth exploring.

[Martinus]

very 20th-century

So 20th century it's 19th century. 

[Razgovory]

The detestable creed of centrism claims another victim.

The thing is, Ide - you don't take your instructions from Pyongyang; you take them from Lulzland. On Languish, if it makes a funny quip or allows you to roll into a fantasia of Fourth Panzer Army Cocks or long-winded descriptions of labor camps that aren't labor camps, it becomes your political position. That's fine; that's all well and good, but it does make your politics - at least as presented here - a bit of a joke. Extremism lends itself well to jokes. There's a reason or two for that which is probably worth exploring.

Well, I think we all exaggerate ourselves for laughs here to some degree.  Not always politics, but usually something.  I admitted when I was younger I showed some interest in Communism.  I was never able to understand how you suppose to make that jump from dictatorship of the proletariat to Idyllic utopia.  I suppose I'm not alone on that.  The Soviets never figured that part out either.

[Razgovory]

Yes, and idealism's infectious for sure.

I don't know. Back when I was politically involved, most people found the various splinter Trotskyist groups really annoying.

They are just cranky.  They always have people coming up to them trying to pick their brains.

[The Brain]

The detestable creed of centrism claims another victim.

Indeed. I have always supported mouth sugar's Farism.

[fhdz]

Well, I think we all exaggerate ourselves for laughs here to some degree.  Not always politics, but usually something.

Absolutely!

[Josephus]

Yes, and idealism's infectious for sure.

I don't know. Back when I was politically involved, most people found the various splinter Trotskyist groups really annoying.

In my youth I never knew if I should vote for the Marxists-Leninists or the Leninists-Marxists.

[Sheilbh]

And you're assuming that what people support is the wonky Scandinavian version instead of the kill the rich and fuck their skulls version that Grallon preaches.

I've known loads of hard-core lefties and they all love Scandinavia.  It's the socialist paradise.  And practically speaking I think Mihali and Ide are a bit more into Stockholm than Minsk

Yes, and idealism's infectious for sure.

It's not infectious idealism I think they're just quite unpleasant and willing to behave as a group and drive everyone else out.  Nowadays modern lefty groups have problems with hardcore Muslims doing this.  The Trots have almost died off, they're too busy fighting their own internicine wars to be doing much entryism. 

Me too.  The perfect is the enemy of the good.

I agree, generally.  I don't think there are really any pragmatic politics - it always seems to me to just be a way to try and close of discussion.  So I think Blair had his own vision and ideology, so did MacMillan - they're probably the most ideologically malleable and neutral figures I can think of.  I imagine it's the same in the US.  I think you've got to have a direction of travel, you need to marry pragmatism to some sense of ideology or you get the European Commission.   

But then my favourite political leader in this country was a radical socialist who remade British society - forever - tried to build a New Jerusalem.  He was motivated by always trying to attain those sunny uplands.  Similarly I understand why Tories love Maggie.  She was trying to do something.  She was trying to smash socialism in the UK and build a sort of Victorian (in the self-help sense) property-owning market democracy.  They both failed in their way and they certainly never attained a perfect society but it's worth trying.

I think you're unfair equating libertarianism with communism, by the way.  Maybe anarchism with libertarianism the equivalent to socialism.

[Grallon]

The thing is, Ide - you don't take your instructions from Pyongyang; you take them from Lulzland. On Languish, if it makes a funny quip or allows you to roll into a fantasia of Fourth Panzer Army Cocks or long-winded descriptions of labor camps that aren't labor camps, it becomes your political position. That's fine; that's all well and good, but it does make your politics - at least as presented here - a bit of a joke. Extremism lends itself well to jokes. There's a reason or two for that which is probably worth exploring.

And you my friend presuppose goodwill and good-faith where there are none.  You make the same mistake as the so-called 'Communists' in fact; one cannot rely on 'common decency' or 'common morals' to run a human herd.  Humans, being what they are, cannot be relied on for objectivity and detachment.  Two qualities which, you will agree, are essential for the smooth running of human affairs.




G.

[Admiral Yi]

With all possible respect and humility, what the fuck are you talking about Grallon?

[dps]

But you say this like Communism's either a mainstream current of thought or as if the left never got over it.  Whole tomes of Socialist and Social Democratic theory emerged distinct from and critiquing Communism from a very early point.  Even if they still took some Marxist ideas as a starting point.

No, I don't think communism's mainstream any more than I think libertarianism is mainstream. I do think there are probably a good number of avowed communists or at least hardcore socialists participating in OWS, even though OWS is not just a fringe movement. There are hardcore libertarians describing themselves as Tea Partiers, too.

And as long as there are places like North Korea and Cuba, and communist revolts in Nepal, I think it's disingenuous to say the Left has completely "left communism behind".

I know I receive all my instructions from Pyongyang.

Well, that explains why your life is so fucked up.

[Zoupa]

But you say this like Communism's either a mainstream current of thought or as if the left never got over it.  Whole tomes of Socialist and Social Democratic theory emerged distinct from and critiquing Communism from a very early point.  Even if they still took some Marxist ideas as a starting point.

No, I don't think communism's mainstream any more than I think libertarianism is mainstream. I do think there are probably a good number of avowed communists or at least hardcore socialists participating in OWS, even though OWS is not just a fringe movement. There are hardcore libertarians describing themselves as Tea Partiers, too.

And as long as there are places like North Korea and Cuba, and communist revolts in Nepal, I think it's disingenuous to say the Left has completely "left communism behind".

I know I receive all my instructions from Pyongyang.

Well, that explains why your life is so fucked up.

HAHAHA SO FUNNY. Because I'm sure your life is bathing in champagne and top models sucking your dick on command.

[Razgovory]

With all possible respect and humility, what the fuck are you talking about Grallon?

Just his dull nihilism.