The California Budget

[saskganesh]

health care is such an endless, badly serviced, bureacraticized black hole I'd be happy to entertain any number of solutions that are fiscally sane, maintain access, and focus on actual health.

[Zanza]

There's no "acceptable" level of debt for a sovereign government IMHO.

Government debt = riskless investments for consumers. Without government debt, where would you put your retirement money? Putting it all into stocks or corporate debt or so is not safe enough for most people.

[alfred russel]

There have been plenty of news stories of the budget crisis in California. I've looked up some numbers for 2007 (the last year I could find in a quick internet search):

I believe their fiscal positions has deteriorated very sharply since 07, due to the narrow tax base.  California also suffers from a governance problem, in that the referendum system hamstrings its ability to raise revenue.  So from the POV of a bond investor, it looks risky.

It does reduce my sympathy for California, though.

[viper37]

You're comparing a lot of bad apples. IMHO.  Why is any amount of debt considered to be acceptable?

I just double-checked - Yukon has no debt.

http://www.finance.gov.yk.ca/pdf/budget/2008_09_longterm_e.pdf

and Yukon is a territory administered by the federal government... Even Alberta will have some debt this year.

[Barrister]

and Yukon is a territory administered by the federal government... Even Alberta will have some debt this year.

Uh, no?  Power was devolved to YTG (Yukon Territorial Government) a number of years ago.  Yukon has powers quite similar to a province, and is definitely not administered by the Feds.

Of course what you could point out is that approximately 90% of YTG's total income comes from federal transfer payments, and our own tax base comprises less than 10%.

[Neil]

Uh, no?  Power was devolved to YTG (Yukon Territorial Government) a number of years ago.  Yukon has powers quite similar to a province, and is definitely not administered by the Feds.

Of course what you could point out is that approximately 90% of YTG's total income comes from federal transfer payments, and our own tax base comprises less than 10%.

The Yukon better not have a debt, given the amount of money it's given and the fact that it only has to service a small town's worth of people.  I'm sure there are enough natives up there to cripple productivity, but there's enough money in the Yukon to get them permafried on inhalants.

[Habsburg]

I just double-checked - Yukon has nothing.

This. 

[Barrister]

The Yukon better not have a debt, given the amount of money it's given and the fact that it only has to service a small town's worth of people.  I'm sure there are enough natives up there to cripple productivity, but there's enough money in the Yukon to get them permafried on inhalants.

The trouble with Yukon is we may only have a small city's population, but we have the land area roughly equal to any province.  That leads to some pretty extreme transportation costs, and highway maintenance is a huge expense per capita...

[saskganesh]

and Yukon is a territory administered by the federal government... Even Alberta will have some debt this year.

Uh, no?  Power was devolved to YTG (Yukon Territorial Government) a number of years ago.  Yukon has powers quite similar to a province, and is definitely not administered by the Feds.

Of course what you could point out is that approximately 90% of YTG's total income comes from federal transfer payments, and our own tax base comprises less than 10%.

the bulk of its not even a transfer payment, but a straight out grant.

the yukon. the short bus of confederation.

@ viper: Alberta this year is running a deficit , but they have socked away some cash, so they remain debt-free.

[Neil]

The Yukon better not have a debt, given the amount of money it's given and the fact that it only has to service a small town's worth of people.  I'm sure there are enough natives up there to cripple productivity, but there's enough money in the Yukon to get them permafried on inhalants.

The trouble with Yukon is we may only have a small city's population, but we have the land area roughly equal to any province.  That leads to some pretty extreme transportation costs, and highway maintenance is a huge expense per capita...

Aha!  I've caught you in a lie!  The Yukon is smaller than any one of the real (non-Atlantic) provinces.

Still, I can see how that would be an issue.  Perhaps the answer is to provide incentives to settle those wild and barbarous lands.

[Barrister]

The Yukon better not have a debt, given the amount of money it's given and the fact that it only has to service a small town's worth of people.  I'm sure there are enough natives up there to cripple productivity, but there's enough money in the Yukon to get them permafried on inhalants.

The trouble with Yukon is we may only have a small city's population, but we have the land area roughly equal to any province.  That leads to some pretty extreme transportation costs, and highway maintenance is a huge expense per capita...

Aha!  I've caught you in a lie!  The Yukon is smaller than any one of the real (non-Atlantic) provinces.

Still, I can see how that would be an issue.  Perhaps the answer is to provide incentives to settle those wild and barbarous lands.

Yukon: 483,500km2
Saskatchewan: 591,670km2

Sounds like "roughly equal" to me.

[Barrister]

the bulk of its not even a transfer payment, but a straight out grant.

the yukon. the short bus of confederation.

@ viper: Alberta this year is running a deficit , but they have socked away some cash, so they remain debt-free.

You think we're bad?  You should look at Nunavut.

[Neil]

The Yukon better not have a debt, given the amount of money it's given and the fact that it only has to service a small town's worth of people.  I'm sure there are enough natives up there to cripple productivity, but there's enough money in the Yukon to get them permafried on inhalants.

The trouble with Yukon is we may only have a small city's population, but we have the land area roughly equal to any province.  That leads to some pretty extreme transportation costs, and highway maintenance is a huge expense per capita...

Aha!  I've caught you in a lie!  The Yukon is smaller than any one of the real (non-Atlantic) provinces.

Still, I can see how that would be an issue.  Perhaps the answer is to provide incentives to settle those wild and barbarous lands.

Yukon: 483,500km2
Saskatchewan: 591,670km2

Sounds like "roughly equal" to me.

100,000 square kilometres is quite a few.

Also, Saskatchewan covers an area of 651,036 km² when you take freshwater area into account.

Statscan: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/phys01-eng.htm

[saskganesh]

the bulk of its not even a transfer payment, but a straight out grant.

the yukon. the short bus of confederation.

@ viper: Alberta this year is running a deficit , but they have socked away some cash, so they remain debt-free.

You think we're bad?  You should look at Nunavut.

you are right. they don't even have roads!

[saskganesh]

100, 000 K is the size of iceland.

and the amount of canadian forests infected by pine beetles in 2008.