Who actually is in for Star Wars?

[katmai]

Oh, and I finally got to Tatooine last night.  So much Star Wars love on that planet.   

I was looking for ya to no avail.

[Barrister]

Oh, and I finally got to Tatooine last night.  So much Star Wars love on that planet.   

I was looking for ya to no avail.

I wound up on a different server from everyone.  Helm of Graush.

Plus last night was a curling night, only played maybe 45 minutes or so.

[Drakken]

They mention they feel like Anakin is bad news but they did what they did anyway.  It was stupid and inexplicable but it is the SW prequels: they are not coherent or make sense.

They felt that Anakin was too old and had seen too much of life living like a kid, and so they were reticent. They relented because Qui-Gon would have trained the kid whether they liked it or not. Obi-Wan later insisted because it's what his master would have wanted. In other words, they accepted it as a fait accompli and they were stuck with an inconvenient McGuffin : the prophecy; it was undeniable that the boy was a shitload of midichlorians sitting in front of them.

Anakin's problem is that he had serious attachment issues and trouble letting things and people go.

[katmai]

Oh, and I finally got to Tatooine last night.  So much Star Wars love on that planet.   

I was looking for ya to no avail.

I wound up on a different server from everyone.  Helm of Graush.

Plus last night was a curling night, only played maybe 45 minutes or so.

I know what server you are on.

[Drakken]

I'm not even sure Luke knows the Jedi code, or that the fact that his mother being married to Anakin in secret and pregnant of him and Leia drove Anakin insanely greedy to the point of becoming Darth Vader for their sake.

I would say that Anakin was well on the way towards the Dark Side before he married Padme, she was more the final straw than anything else.

Which is kind of silly, when you think about it. How did Yoda and Obi-wan not see pretty clearly what was happening? It was blindingly obvious that Anakin lacked anything like the tempermant necessary for the Jedi Order, and was pretty much a stereotype of what becomes Sith.

I guess maybe the Sith were gone so long at that point they didn't really understand the danger beyond the theoretical.

My theory is that for someone like Anakin, the strictures of the Jedi Order are basically so impossible that attempting to mold him into that makes his failure (and hence turn towards the Dark side) inevitable. A more nuanced view of emotion and less radically nutty ethical structure could actually be *better* at keeping someone like Anakin from turning to the dark.

That is my pet SW theory anyway - that the Jedi are just as bonkers as the Sith. In an effort to reject the radicalism of the Sith, they've become just as radical themselves, and with nearly as bad consequences.

They knew very well what Sith Lords were. It's not like it was the first time in eons, and Yoda was supposedly 900 years old. They had the bad luck to fall on a Sith Lord who was a chessmaster of deception and manipulation.

What sank Anakin well into the Dark Side was Padmé being pregnant and visions of her dying in childbirth, and being left alone dealing about it. It's from that moment that he started to seek ways to selfishly maintain life through the use of the Force, which is something only the Dark Side can do. The whole issue of slaughtering Tusken Raiders to avenge his mother let him get a glimpse of the Dark Side (just like Luke decapitating Darth Vader in the Dagobah cave, or choking guards in Jabba the Hutt's compound), yet without fully embracing it. He was not in control of his actions at that moment. Anakin certainly didn't like it afterwards, he failed ashamed, and remained in control for the rest of the movie. Even decapitating Dooku left a bad taste in his mouth, and he did it because Palpatine (the Chancellor, not the Sith Lord) ordered him to do it.

However, Lucas dropped the ball heavy on that one, because Yoda had sensed his immense pain on Tatooine, and even Qui-Gon's etheral ghost voice tried to bring Anakin to senses from murdering the whole village. Wouldn't the first thing he would have done is take him aside in private and debrief him, and actively guide him to control himself better? Clearly Obi-Wan wasn't up to that particular job. It's not like it was a secret that Anakin had a huge problem of letting things and people he cared about go.

Hell, even after he started to have nightmares again the first thing he did was to seek Yoda's help. Yoda wouldn't have a problem sensing very well that Anakin loved Padmé, that they were in a relationship, and she was the one he was concerned about. Why didn't he simply stated "Anakin, for your wife care a lot do you. To control your fear of losing her, let me help you cope with." Ta-dam, problem solved : Compassion, relief from a burdensome secret, acceptance, and the feeling that a Jedi now listens to him. Instead, he says that he shouldn't be missing or mourning people who die and become one with the Force, basically advising Anakin to "simply stop caring". That's not advice, and not even tough love. It's asking Anakin to become emotionless and throwing him back in the streets.

However, I feel by that point, Anakin was widely seen among the Jedi Council as a nuisance and a pawn to be used. Mace Windu clearly didn't like the guy.

Compare with how Yoda and Obi-Wan took care of Luke when he was failing, being petulant, or asking questions. Nowhere did they snark back at Luke to stop being himself, they both sat down and took the time it took to guide him. Prolly they took the twenty years of exile to sit down and ponder on how badly incompetent and callous they had been on Anakin, and decided to do different with Luke even though he showed every single bit of an attitude similar than Anakin. Luke in ANH and TESB is basically a more laid-back version of Anakin, similar even with the whining and impulse control issues. But this time, Yoda and Obi-Wan actually trained him personally with a training tailored for him, and it showed results.

My pet theory is that Jedi were so busy fixing the leaking problems of the Republic that they missed the basics of their existence : helping people in need and help them selflessly, especially when the one having problems is one who can be a genocidal psychopath if he becomes selfish, angry, greedy, and rejected. I felt that the Jedi, and especially Yoda, totally left Anakin down in emotional support and compassion (ironic when one of the first tenant of the Jedi Code is compassion for others), when they could have seen what his problem was and treat him personally without going the whole Mace Windu "I don't trust you" angle.

And so, Anakin went for the only ones who would actually listen to what he has to say : Padmé and Palpatine, and the vicious circle began.

[Barrister]

Oh, and I finally got to Tatooine last night.  So much Star Wars love on that planet.   

I was looking for ya to no avail.

I wound up on a different server from everyone.  Helm of Graush.

Plus last night was a curling night, only played maybe 45 minutes or so.

I know what server you are on.

Just double-checking.

If you're on again by all means give me a ring.  Altaira the trooper.



BY the way, anyone have any good suggestinos for raising a bit of cash?  Buying my speeder has left me short of coin to train a few abilities, not to mention my crafting has been languishing because I can't afford to level it either.

[katmai]

I have been looking for ya. But sadly if you aren't on I can't add as friend as get notification that altaira doesn't exist.

And just keep questing and selling gear you find. I went back up like 20k credits in by time I hit next lvl after buying speeder skill.

[Barrister]

What is your toon's name, so I can keep an eye out for you?

[HVC]

space quests build cash fast. you can use your toons to funnel more as space are one a day things (though they still give some cash if you do them outside of the quest)

[crazy canuck]

I have started a Jedi Consulor on BB's server named Cicero.  I like it a lot better than the darkness of Sithworld.  Berk, are you referring to the quest where you break up the love birds as the starting point of the discussion of Jedi being celibate?

IIRC the discussion in the quest dialogue was about separating them during their training.  I thought it was a good reference to what would eventually happen to Anniken during his training.

[Barrister]

I have started a Jedi Consulor on BB's server named Cicero.  I like it a lot better than the darkness of Sithworld.  Berk, are you referring to the quest where you break up the love birds as the starting point of the discussion of Jedi being celibate?

IIRC the discussion in the quest dialogue was about separating them during their training.  I thought it was a good reference to what would eventually happen to Anniken during his training.

I'm pretty sure from that quest that Jedi are supposed to be celibate at all times, not just as a padawan.

I have a jedi alt who is trying to go light side, but thinks jedi should be able to folow their hearts.  I'm not sure how that'll turn out for me though.  The dialogue options for that quest in particular were tough - no I don't want your bribe, no I didn't cover up for you so you could break up on your own.  You two - just go and be happy.

[Berkut]

Yeah, I guess it is inevitable, but some of the dark/light quest options are really stupid.

I had one where I was on a quest to stop some Imperial double agent, and it comes down to a choice of

1. Killing him as instructed, and to protect the Empire from this traitor (light result), and
2. Letting him live in return for a giant pile of cash (dark result).

Uhhh, say what?

[Berkut]

I have started a Jedi Consulor on BB's server named Cicero.  I like it a lot better than the darkness of Sithworld.  Berk, are you referring to the quest where you break up the love birds as the starting point of the discussion of Jedi being celibate?

Yeah, as a starting point at least it got me wondering. I certainly don't recall any Jedi spouses either.

I actually rather like the idea that Jedi is not really so much a "good guy" Force user, as much as they are a particular ethical/philosophical means of dealing with the perceived problem of how to control the danger of force users being such powerful creatures. The Sith, of course, simply reject the idea that they should be controlled at all, and revel in the power that the Force gives them, and are perfectly happy using that power for their own ends.

The Jedi seem to be not so much driven by any particular *need* to be ascetic because that is what is demanded by being a Force user, but rather the preception that that is what is demanded by being a force user who is NOT Sith. In other words, a Jedi (as defined by the Jedi Order) is an anti-Sith more than they are a "good" Force user.

So why not a Force user who neither embraces their own ego, but at the same time does not accept that claim that only through self denial can the force be safely wielded?

[Drakken]

So why not a Force user who neither embraces their own ego, but at the same time does not accept that claim that only through self denial can the force be safely wielded?

Isn't this basically the path Revan took, and thus the basis of the Cult of Revan?

[Berkut]

So why not a Force user who neither embraces their own ego, but at the same time does not accept that claim that only through self denial can the force be safely wielded?

Isn't this basically the path Revan took, and thus the basis of the Cult of Revan?

I think so...but I don't know anything about Revan beyond the intro quest line is SWOL!