FM 2012

[Viking]

These are the highlights from my 0-4 victory for Rosenborg away at Ajax. Check out the second goal, scored by Rade Prica from within my own area. At the time Ajax were pressing hard to overturn my lucky 0-1. That seems to have broken their spirit and they fell apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsdz_XicxAM

The other two goalscorers are Mushaga Bakenga and Andy Polo both of the other two have pace and acc of 16 or more while Prica plays as target man in my 3 striker setup.

[Josephus]

What exactly does co-ownership do? I see it alot in the Italian league. I'm playing as Napoli. I may have a player worth $10m and some teams wants to co-own him for $5 m. So what does that do exactly? I still get to play him. they don't. So what's in it for them? Is it purely an investment/ (they get half when I sell?)

[Viking]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-ownership_%28football%29

It's half way between a loan and a sale. The recieving club buys a half share in a player and gets to play him. Once one year is up both clubs make blind bids for the player.

Clubs in lower leagues in italy can use this to try and get decent players and if the player succeeds they can bid for him, if he turns out to be a wonderkid the big team then has to shell out some cash to get him back.

It is supposedlly good for developing players as the idea is that it is less risky than buying and encourages the smaller team to develop the player either to make a profit or to use the player. Co-Owning teams will usualy play Co-owned players more than loaned ones encouraging development.

[Josephus]

But if I'm a large club, Napoli, there is really little incentive right for me to accept a co-ownership offer from another club?

[Viking]

But if I'm a large club, Napoli, there is really little incentive right for me to accept a co-ownership offer from another club?

If you have a young player which might be able to win promotion to your first team and a smaller club in Serie A or B wants to co-own him then you might want to accept. The player will gain more first team experience than sitting in your youth or reserve team or even going on loan.

As a large club you have no incentive to offer to co-own other team's players. iirc the bidding team gets the player. If you can arrange it so that the player stays at the other club it's a bit like buying a form of option on the player, but I don't think you can do that.

[Josephus]

Thanks. 

[Viking]

Thanks. 

I never liked co-ownership. I prefer to sell players for €0 with a 50% sell-on fee and a buyback price. I'd happily pay half of the list price for an as yet unproven wonderkid while giving him 3 years of first team experience at another club. That limits the price I have to pay and allows the term to be longer.

The blind bids also freak me out.

[Pedrito]

These are the highlights from my 0-4 victory for Rosenborg away at Ajax. Check out the second goal, scored by Rade Prica from within my own area. At the time Ajax were pressing hard to overturn my lucky 0-1. That seems to have broken their spirit and they fell apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsdz_XicxAM

The other two goalscorers are Mushaga Bakenga and Andy Polo both of the other two have pace and acc of 16 or more while Prica plays as target man in my 3 striker setup.

what's the numbers and letters after the player's names in your video?

L.

[Viking]

These are the highlights from my 0-4 victory for Rosenborg away at Ajax. Check out the second goal, scored by Rade Prica from within my own area. At the time Ajax were pressing hard to overturn my lucky 0-1. That seems to have broken their spirit and they fell apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsdz_XicxAM

The other two goalscorers are Mushaga Bakenga and Andy Polo both of the other two have pace and acc of 16 or more while Prica plays as target man in my 3 striker setup.

what's the numbers and letters after the player's names in your video?

L.

I give every player a nickname.

First Initial; Last Name; Ability in halfstars; Role; Potential in halfstars; Personality

The use of Caps in the Role has meaning too All Caps mature player, One Cap young but developed, No Caps young needs development

So "R Prica 6TM FD" - is Rade Prica 6 half stars ability, Target Man best role,  Mature player, No potential halfstars means he is declining due to age and he is Fairly Determined.

So when I line up the squad in the selection window I choose the fitness menu and in their names I have all the coach and assman reports summarized up in their name. It saves me alot of clicking, so I rarely have to check player reports or training reports when selecting teams or making subs due to injurty etc.. So I don't accidentally swap a player on a poacher role with a large target man or I don't swap an anchor man into a playmaker role. I update this once a month.

[Pedrito]

what's the numbers and letters after the player's names in your video?

L.

I give every player a nickname.

First Initial; Last Name; Ability in halfstars; Role; Potential in halfstars; Personality

The use of Caps in the Role has meaning too All Caps mature player, One Cap young but developed, No Caps young needs development

So "R Prica 6TM FD" - is Rade Prica 6 half stars ability, Target Man best role,  Mature player, No potential halfstars means he is declining due to age and he is Fairly Determined.

So when I line up the squad in the selection window I choose the fitness menu and in their names I have all the coach and assman reports summarized up in their name. It saves me alot of clicking, so I rarely have to check player reports or training reports when selecting teams or making subs due to injurty etc.. So I don't accidentally swap a player on a poacher role with a large target man or I don't swap an anchor man into a playmaker role. I update this once a month.

Good God  You have time havent you

Do you use this classification for players not in your team, too?

L.

[Viking]

what's the numbers and letters after the player's names in your video?

L.

I give every player a nickname.

First Initial; Last Name; Ability in halfstars; Role; Potential in halfstars; Personality

The use of Caps in the Role has meaning too All Caps mature player, One Cap young but developed, No Caps young needs development

So "R Prica 6TM FD" - is Rade Prica 6 half stars ability, Target Man best role,  Mature player, No potential halfstars means he is declining due to age and he is Fairly Determined.

So when I line up the squad in the selection window I choose the fitness menu and in their names I have all the coach and assman reports summarized up in their name. It saves me alot of clicking, so I rarely have to check player reports or training reports when selecting teams or making subs due to injurty etc.. So I don't accidentally swap a player on a poacher role with a large target man or I don't swap an anchor man into a playmaker role. I update this once a month.

Good God  You have time havent you

Do you use this classification for players not in your team, too?

L.

Shit no. I only do this for my own players, and not even all of them. My first team yes, obviously as well as my reserves. For my youth team I only do it for players that are likely candidates for promotion. I do NOT do this for any other team.

This is not time consuming. The Name doesn't change, I get the ability from the teamlist with the AssMan ratings for ability, these usually don't change much, if they do change that is valuable information for me to have (either a player is improving or declining), the role usually doesn't change, there is the occasional move from advanced forward to poacher or from central defender to ball playing defender, but like the change in ability this tells me that my training program is having an effect on the player. The potential usually does change, but the progression of potential seems to include a dip in the age range of 19-23 before returning to the high youth values a true talent has, so I don't change the potential once it has been assessed by a high JPA coach or Ass Man. Personality also does usually not change, but if it does then it means that my mentoring choice has worked successfully. As for the capitalization, if ability stars catch potential stars then I capitalize the first letter and when the player reaches 27 I capitalize both.

It is not much work but it gives alot of overview just from the name. It just means I don't need to remember which role a striker is best suited for or if I need him to play matches to improve or that now we are in a commanding lead which players might be taken off to spare them for later games etc. I can see without going through coach reports which reserve team players might be suitable for the game based due to either injuries or mediocre opponents. This is not a big chore. Once a month (in the game) I go to the Assistant Reports view on the team menu and check to see if anybody has changed anything. Usually most changes are of the kind J Doe 5AP5 FD changes to J Doe 4AP4 FD only to go back to J Doe 5AP5 FD next month. Those I don't bother with since I rarely change potential anyways. There is very little or no work involved in this and with reserve and youth teams I do it once per transfer window.

I repeat, I only do this for my own team and only for the players that might be relevant. If you don't want to do it for your whole team, do it for players you send on loan. If you take the player "Hot Prospect" and label him "H Prospect 2wng6 FA" (wng = winger) and you send him on loan to another club and he returns to become "H Prospect 4wng7 FA" then you know how well the loan period went. If he returns "H Prospect 2wng4 FA" that tells you something as well. Another thing that this helps with is hidden attributes like Ambition, Professionalism, Sportsmanship etc. If the personality changes from Pro (for Professional) to Det (for Determined) then you know his hidden stat Professionalism is between 15 and his present Determinism. Basically I'm taking snapshots of their ratings and updating the snapshots at regular periods to keep track of player development.

[Liep]

Just beat Real Madrid 2-1 on Bernabéu with my young underdogs from Hellas Verona, this game never fails to reward.

[Viking]

Just beat Real Madrid 2-1 on Bernabéu with my young underdogs from Hellas Verona, this game never fails to reward.

I love seeing those guys lose, even if it is just fiction.


Edit: I got offered the real job with €330M transfer kitty. Thats a true fuckload of money. I said no.

[The Larch]

But if I'm a large club, Napoli, there is really little incentive right for me to accept a co-ownership offer from another club?

There might be circumstances. Imagine you have an intriguing young player, who might develop into a good one, but you're not sure if you'll be able, for whatever reason, to offer him enough games to be developed. You can get another club, ideally a smaller one, to co-own the player and play for them, you get some money for the deal and, in a year or two, if he has indeed developed into a good player you make a bid for him and try to bring him back for less money than outright buying him if he was a full player of the other team, and if you don't want to bring him back you don't bid and get whatever money the other team bids for him.

Another scenario. Imagine if you're a small team, and another team has a player that you want, but can't afford. You offer co-ownership to the other team, getting to play him for a year or two. If at the end of that period you have the resources to buy the other 50%, you bid for him, and if you're lucky you might be able to get him for less money than in the open market.

It's also a way to poach young players from other teams, imagine you have a hot prospect and a big club comes and offers co-ownership for a couple of years. You get paid, develop the player for them for a year or two, and after that there's the bid. If the big club is still interested, it'll bid for him and you get payed again, but now you loose the player.

Also, when a player is co-owned by two teams, if a third team wants to buy him it has to negotiate with the other two clubs, not just with one, so it can also be a way to call dibs on a player from another team if you can't or aren't interested in getting him outright.

It's a bit like a riskier (because you don't have 100% security of getting the player at the end of the deal) long term loan. I don't personally like them or use them much, but it can be useful on some situations, and you always have to take them into account if you play in Italy because almost every team there has some guys in that situation and other teams are going to try to pull that with your players, so you have to be able to deal with it.

Oh, and the blind bidding is also likely to produce some fun results and mess up the ability to get a glimpse of a player's career just by looking at the clubs he belonged. Just check the real case of Emiliano Viviano, Italy's backup goalkeeper during the last WC, who became the starter after Buffon got injured.
In January 2009 he belonged to Brescia, and Inter bought 50% of his footballing rights from them, but Brescia got to keep him for the rest of the season. Then in July 2009 Brescia sold their 50% to Bologna, where Viviano was to play the following two seasons, still co-owned by Inter. In june 2011 both teams (Inter and Bologna) had to bid for the other 50% of his footballing rights. Inter bid 4.2 million €, while Bologna's representative messed up their offer, filled incorrectly their paperwork and ended up biding just 2.3 million € instead of the 4.7 million € that he was supposed to bid. As a result Bologna lost the bid and the player, but got the money. That same summer, less than a month after joining Inter and before even making his debut for them, Viviano tore the ACL during training. Karma? He is currently ruled out for the season, but Inter have already sold 50% of his footballing rights again just one month after the injury, with Genoa this time.

So, he went from belonging to Brescia (prior to January 2009) to be co-owned by Inter and Brescia (January-July 2009), to being co-owned by Inter and Bologna (July 2009-June 2011), to being owned solely by Inter (June 2011-August 2011) and then co-owned again by Inter and Genoa. In less than 3 years, between January 2009 and now, he has been on the books of 4 different clubs (Brescia, Inter, Bologna and Genoa), has played only for 2 of them (Brescia and Bologna) and has never played for the club who owned or co-owned him the longest, Inter, with which he's been linked for the entire time period.

[Josephus]

Seems far too complicated.

In my particular instance, Milan offered to co-own my 16 year old. But if I understood the offer right, they were going to allow him to stay with me. Since I didn't need the money, i didn't see the point in potentially losing him down the road...his potential is rated very highly.

Another somewhat related question: is there a bug with Champions League registrations? It says players 21 and under don't need to be registered. I'm currently in a Champions League round and in my last game, I was out of defenders due to injuries, suspensions and ineligibilities. So I called up this 16-year-old prodigy to the senior team, with plans to play him in the CL game.  But he was listed as  INE hmm: He's not cup tied, so I can' figure out why.