Wall Street protesters: We're in for the long haul

[citizen k]

Iraq war vet injured during Oakland protests


OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — The clash between Oakland police and Occupy Wall Street protesters left a Marine veteran who completed two Iraq tours in critical condition Wednesday after he was struck by a police projectile, a veterans' group said.

Scott Olsen, 24, suffered a fractured skull Tuesday as he marched with other protesters toward City Hall, said Dottie Guy, of the Iraq Veterans Against the War. The demonstrators had been making an attempt to re-establish a presence in the area of a disbanded protesters' camp when they were met by police officers in riot gear.

Several small skirmishes broke out and officers cleared the area by firing tear gas.

It's not known exactly what type of object struck Olsen, currently a systems network administrator in Daly City, or whether he'll need surgery, Guy said.

"It's still too early to tell," Guy said. "We're hoping for the best."

Curt Olsen, a spokesman for Highland Hospital in Oakland, confirmed that the veteran was in critical condition but could not release any more information.

The clash Tuesday came as officials complained about what they described as deteriorating safety, sanitation and health issues at the dismantled camp.

Olsen, who completed his service last year, participated in the protest because he felt corporations and banks have too much influence on the government, Guy said.

A vigil for him is scheduled to be held Wednesday evening near the Oakland City Hall, she said. Multiple attempts to reach Oakland police Wednesday by The Associated Press were unsuccessful, but the department was scheduled to take part in a news conference at 4:30 p.m.

Meanwhile, Oakland demonstrators vowed on Wednesday to return to their protest site just hours after police — who were met as they moved in by pelted rocks, bottles and utensils — cleared hundreds of people from the streets with tear gas and bean bag rounds.

A Twitter feed used by Oakland's Occupy Wall Street movement called on protesters to return to downtown at 6 p.m. for another round, and some demonstrators vowed to return as soon as possible.

Max Alper, 31, a union organizer from Berkeley, gathered with a handful of other protesters Wednesday at the scene of Tuesday night's clash.

"As soon as these barricades are moved, hundreds of people are going to come back. These actions by police were wrong, but they're just going to strengthen the movement," Alper said.

Alper was arrested Tuesday morning when he went to witness the police raid on the Occupy Oakland encampment outside City Hall, he said. He said his arm was injured when baton-swinging police descended on him and other protesters.

Police estimated that there were roughly 1,000 demonstrators at the first clash following the march.

City officials say that two officers were injured. At least five protesters were arrested and several others injured in the evening clashes.

Scott Olsen being carried away Tuesday night:

[citizen k]

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — Police in riot gear clashed with anti-Wall Street protesters overnight, firing tear gas and beanbag rounds at hundreds of demonstrators in Oakland and forcibly evicting and arresting more than 50 others in Atlanta.

The moves come as business owners, residents and officials in cities where encampments have sprouted up since the movement began last month are increasingly complaining about crime, sanitation problems and disruptions to business.

The encampments were empty in both cities on Wednesday, as police stood guard nearby.

Overnight, the scenes in Oakland were chaotic, with officers firing tear gas and beanbag rounds over three hours as protesters tried to re-establish a tent camp outside city hall that they had been evicted from earlier Tuesday.

Officials complained about what they described as deteriorating safety, sanitation and health issues at the dismantled camp.

Acting Police Chief Howard Jordan told reporters at a late night news conference that authorities had no other choice, saying the protesters were throwing rocks and bottles at officers. City officials said two officers were injured.

"We had to deploy gas to stop the crowd," he said, according to a KCBS report.

Police have denied reports that they used flash bang canisters to help break up the crowds, saying the loud noises came from large firecrackers thrown at police by protesters.

The chemical haze from the tear gas hung in the air for hours, new blasts clouding the air before the previous fog could dissipate. The number of protesters diminished with each round of tear gas.

Police estimated that there were roughly 1,000 demonstrators at the first clash. Nearly 100 people were arrested, mostly on suspicion of misdemeanor unlawful assembly and illegal camping.

Among the protesters were young adults, some riding bicycles, protecting themselves from the noxious fumes with bandanas and scarves wrapped around their faces. Protesters were still resolved to continue.

"This movement is more than just the people versus the police," Mario Fernandez said. "It's about the people trying to have their rights to basic services." He added, "This crowd isn't going anywhere anytime soon."

In Atlanta, helicopters hovered and trained spotlights on the city's downtown as police in riot gear moved into a small city park just after midnight and arrested protesters who had been there in tents for about two weeks.

Before police marched in, protesters were warned a couple times around midnight to vacate the park or risk arrest. Inside the park, the warnings were drowned out by drumbeats and chants of "Our park!"

Organizers had instructed participants to be peaceful if arrests came, and most were.

Many gathered in the center of the park, locking arms, and sang "We Shall Overcome," until police led them out, one-by-one to waiting buses. Some were dragged out while others left on foot, handcuffed with plastic ties.

The police presence was "overkill," said state Sen. Vincent Fort, who was among those arrested after coming to the park in support of the protesters. He called the camp "the most peaceful place in Georgia."

"At the urging of the business community, he's moving people out," he said, referring to Mayor Kasim Reed. "Shame on him."

Police included SWAT teams in riot gear, dozens of officers on motorcycles and several on horseback. By about 1:30 a.m. Wednesday the park was mostly cleared of protesters.

Reed said he was upset over an advertised hip-hop concert that he said drew 600 people to the park over the weekend but didn't have a permit and didn't have security guards to work the crowd, calling it irresponsible.

Reed said he had serious security concerns that he said were heightened Tuesday when a man was seen in the park with an assault rifle. He said authorities could not determine whether the gun was loaded, and were unable to get additional information about it.

An Associated Press reporter talked to the man with the gun slung across his back earlier Tuesday as he walked in the park. He wouldn't give his name, but said he was an out-of-work accountant who doesn't agree with the protesters' views.

He said he was there, armed, because he wanted to protect the rights of people to protest.

There's no law that prevents him from carrying the gun in public, but police followed him for about 10 minutes before moving off.

Across the country, complaints about crime and sanitation have been increasing as protesters prepare to settle in for the winter.

The mayor of Providence, R.I., is threatening to go to court within days to evict demonstrators from a park.

Businesses and residents near New York's Zuccotti Park, the unofficial headquarters of the movement, are demanding something be done to discourage the hundreds of protesters from urinating in the street and making noise at all hours.

"A lot of tourists coming down from hotels are so disgusted and disappointed when they see this," said Stacey Tzortzatos, manager of a sandwich shop near Zuccotti Park. "I hope for the sake of the city the mayor does close this down."

She complained that the protesters who come in by the dozen to use her bathroom dislodged a sink and caused a flood, and that police barricades are preventing her normal lunch crowd from stopping by.

In Philadelphia, city officials have been waiting almost two weeks for Occupy Philly to respond to a letter containing a list of health and safety concerns. City Managing Director Richard Negrin said officials can't wait much longer to address hazards such as smoking in tightly packed tents, camp layouts that hinder emergency access, and exposure to human waste.

"Every day that they haven't addressed these public safety concerns simply increases the risk," he said Tuesday.

Stephen Campbell, a protester in Boston, said the troublemakers are the minority.

"We have a policy here: no drugs, no alcohol," he said. "Us occupiers really try to stick true to that. Other people who move in, who maybe have an alcohol problem or a drug problem, you know, we're not fully equipped to handle things like that."

In Minneapolis, Hennepin County Commissioner Jeff Johnson said some constituents who work downtown are getting a little tired of the piles of belongings cluttering the plaza, while others are worried about escalating costs.

The sheriff's department has already spent more than $200,000, most of that in overtime.

Oakland officials had initially been supportive of the protests, with Mayor Jean Quan saying that sometimes "democracy is messy."

But tensions reached a boiling point after a sexual assault, a severe beating and a fire were reported and paramedics were denied access to the camp, according to city officials. They also cited concerns about rats, fire hazards and public urination.

When police moved in, they were pelted with rocks, bottles and utensils from people in the camp's kitchen area, but no injuries were reported. Protesters were taken away in plastic handcuffs, most of them arrested on suspicion of illegal lodging.

Protesters disputed the city's claims about conditions at the camp.

Lauren Richardson, a college student from Oakland, said that volunteers collected garbage and recycling every six hours, that water was boiled before being used to wash dishes, and that rats had infested the park long before the camp went up.

"It was very neat. It was very organized," Richardson said.

In New York, the neighborhood board voted Tuesday night to pass a resolution that proposed off-site portable bathrooms funded by local donors, said Julie Menin, head of the board. The resolution also requested that loud noises, like the blast of air horns and group chanting, be limited to two hours during the day.

The park's owner, Brookfield Office Properties, tried to push the protesters out two weeks ago to clean it but backed off at the last minute after a public outcry.

Menin said the neighborhood does not believe the protesters should be kicked out. "We do not want the city to use force in any way," she said. "And we think it's possible to address quality-of-life issues."

Dozens Arrested in Arizona After Wall St. Protests


(AP) Authorities in Arizona arrested nearly 100 people after two separate protests in support of the Occupy Wall Street movement.

The 53 arrests in Tucson and 46 in Phoenix on Saturday night came hours after peaceful protests against financial institutions as part of a series of such demonstrations across the country. Police said demonstrators in each city failed to leave parks at curfew.

Phoenix police said protesters marched from a downtown rally to a park that had a posted 10:30 p.m. closing time.

"As the park closing hour passed, many of the demonstrators refused to leave," said police spokesman Sgt. Trent Crump, adding that officers told the protesters "to leave or be subject to arrest."

Crump said "a large group remained and refused to leave the park," resulting in 46 arrests for criminal trespass, a misdemeanor.

"Most of those arrested were passive in nature and no injuries were reported to either officers or demonstrators," he said.

In Tucson, about 100 miles south of Phoenix, police said 53 demonstrators were arrested after they remained in a park after the 10:30 p.m. closing time. An estimated 150 protesters were at the park at the time and they were told they would be arrested if they didn't leave, said Sgt. Matt Ronstadt, a Tucson police spokesman.

Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villasenor addressed the remaining demonstrators after the closing time passed and officers began issuing criminal citations for remaining in a city park after-hours.

Ronstadt said no force was used during the citation process and all 53 were released pending a court appearance. The Tucson rally drew an estimated 500 people; about 1,000 people attended the Phoenix event.

Phoenix protester Davin Wright, 31, described the scene at the park as generally peaceful, but said police acted roughly during some initial arrests.

"Anyone who thought they were going to be crunching skulls — it's not going to happen," he said.

Groups have been turning out across the country to express anger over costly health care and rising unemployment, and to cast blame on corporate interests for the economic pain they say all but the wealthiest Americans have endured since the financial meltdown.

[garbon]

I liked my summary better.

[citizen k]

I liked my summary better.

Like a phrase I've heard recently in regards to Steve Jobs and Apple's design philosophy, "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."

[HisMajestyBOB]

Good for him... according to Wong Wei Fan (the aforementioned guy from college) dog is "delicious".  I'm somewhat curious what dog tastes like in the same way that I'm curious what human tastes like (e.g. curious, but not so much that I'd ever dream of trying it), but I would love to try horse meat for some reason, and will definitely do so if I ever go back to Germany or Belgium or some other place where horse is eaten.  I think Eschweiler is the city in Germany famous for its horse sauerbraten.

FYI, dog tastes like beef.
At least in the dog stew I had in Korea.
I've heard that if prepared differently in certain Chinese cuisines, it tastes better (and "very very delicious").

I also want to try horse meat.
Also, alpaca tastes like porkchop (strange but true).
Guinea pig is sweet, chewy and tangy, although some of that might have just been the seasoning.

EDIT: Also, dog is unlikely to be something you just throw in, like a dodgy Chinese retaurant might do. Too expensive and not very common. Squirrel and rat would be much more likely. Perhaps roadkill too when it's found as a bonus.

[crazy canuck]

Horse meat can be really good.  I had a wonderful slow cooked horsemeat dish in Northern Italy - long story as to how I ended up ordering it but I am glad I did.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Is it comparable to anything?
My guess is that it'd taste a little like steak, but maybe tougher.

[garbon]

I liked my summary better.

Like a phrase I've heard recently in regards to Steve Jobs and Apple's design philosophy, "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."

Me.

[Richard Hakluyt]

However, it appears that St. Paul's has been obliged to close, some elf'n-safety bs :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15406865

Time for the protestors to move on.

Looks like the health and safety was really just an excuse (my guess is that it was the norm and actually just a killjoy with a clipboard, nothing to do with real worries about liability).  See this rather long post by the New Statesman's legal blogger:
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2011/10/health-safety-cathedral-camp

I struggle to read that sort of thing 

These seem like well-behaved and reasonable protestors, so I would assume that "health and safety" is unlikely to be a major issue.

But, things are moving on and the Chancellor of St. Paul's is stepping down :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15472362

I would assume that he was not the target the protestors were aiming at, in fact he seems to have been a supporter and is having to resign because of the loss of all the tourist revenue that has ceased to roll in.

It is a parable of our times.

[crazy canuck]

Is it comparable to anything?
My guess is that it'd taste a little like steak, but maybe tougher.

Its like well marbled beef - quite rich tasting.  It probably is more tough and that is probably why they prepared it in a slow cooker.  But after it went though that process it was tender and delicious.

[MadImmortalMan]

Like a phrase I've heard recently in regards to Steve Jobs and Apple's design philosophy, "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."

That's the way he viewed his customers too.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Like a phrase I've heard recently in regards to Steve Jobs and Apple's design philosophy, "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."

That's the way he viewed his customers too.

Yes, a successful combination of the rich and the ignorant.

[Sheilbh]

I would assume that he was not the target the protestors were aiming at, in fact he seems to have been a supporter and is having to resign because of the loss of all the tourist revenue that has ceased to roll in.

It is a parable of our times.

I can see the reasoning behind his resignation which is rather sad:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/27/giles-fraser-resignation-dale-farm

Edit:  Good Lord, the CofE's ability to find doubt and division in all possible situations is just remarkable:

Church of England split over St Paul's handling of Occupy London protest

Regrets and recriminations may lead church to ditch its antiquated ways as senior official agonise over predicament


The good publicity generated by Rowan Williams in Zimbabwe has been negated. Photograph: Tsvangirayi Mukwazhi/AP

The Church of England, not for the first time, has been left ruing its handling of the protest outside St Paul's Cathedral, a situation in which it has been largely hapless. It did not ask for the protesters to pitch their tents next to one of its most important and symbolic buildings – or not semi-permanently anyway.

Yet the consequences of its agonised soul-searching have left it distinctly uncomfortable: trying to uphold free speech, bearing in mind the example of Christ's clearing out the money changers from the temple on the one hand, or accepting the advice of a health and safety official – who has now fallen sick with stress – on the other. Or "a total and complete shambles", as one senior church figure told the Guardian.

There was sympathy for the cathedral's predicament on the church's right wing and support from the left for the resigning canon Giles Fraser, but also near-universal criticism of the decision to shut the cathedral for the first time since the blitz, not all of it displaced to the responsibility of the demonstrators.

The church used to be more robust in its dealing with demonstrators outside its walls, as the collection of pikes and armour on the walls of the guardroom at Lambeth Palace, the archbishop of Canterbury's London residence, indicate, but it is centuries since it has had to get them down.

"It is very hard to take the temperature of the Church of England," said Paul Handley, editor of the Church Times. "In a poll last week we found 65% of church members believing it was right to welcome the protesters, but there are equally bound to be lots of churchgoers out in the country who think it is right to take a firm hand to them. I suspect whatever people think of the demonstrators though, most will think the church has taken an utterly wrong approach to dealing with the situation. It is such a shame: we have just had our best publicity for ages over Rowan Williams challenging Robert Mugabe to his face and now this comes up and clearly damages the church's reputation once again."

In an indication of the often highly politicised vituperation among some in the church following the long-running dispute over gay clergy – in which Fraser was on the liberal side – some evangelicals reacted with glee that he was resigning. Gavin Drake, the bishop of Lichfield's press officer, wrote on his blog: "Goodbye Giles Fraser, you won't be missed. Giles Fraser is a liberal when it comes to what he believes, but a complete bigot when it comes to the beliefs and views of others ... His appointment was wrong." He claimed his remarks were not personal.

Toby Young, the polemicist, broke off from running his west London free school to claim in the Telegraph that Fraser had single-handedly cost the cathedral hundreds of thousands of pounds in lost revenue. "Sod your colleagues, eh, Dr Fraser? The important thing is that you hold on to your reputation as a man of principle."

More liberal clergy rallied to his support and sympathisers set up a Save Giles Fraser Twitter feed. "The Church of England risks damaging its reputation for a generation. The church has not thought this through," the Rev George Pitcher, who was sacked in the summer as the archbishop of Canterbury's media adviser, told Premier Christian Radio.

Today's decision to reopen the cathedral to worshippers while the demonstrators are still outside seems to undermine the dean and chapter's decision to close the building a week ago for health and safety reasons. The decision was compounded by legal advice that the clergy should not speak to the demonstrators, which undermined the chances of a negotiated settlement.

When the dust settles, the church's authorities may have to review the traditional – and historic, dating back centuries – dean and chapter management structures for its great buildings, over which archbishops, and indeed diocesan bishops, have very little say. Making the church more savvy in its dealings with the outside world of protesters and insistent media demands may prove more difficult, particularly as it has just lost the services of one of its best communicators.

Having said that Rowan's stuff from Zimbabwe has been pretty good.

[crazy canuck]

Apparently "We are the 99%" has become a huge marketing boon.

[garbon]

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/inquirer/132865403.html

We find it interesting to see how many commentators, pro and con, suggest that the Occupy Wall Street movement lacks clear goals or focus. Spend a few hours talking to these folks, as we have, and you'll know that the movement's goals are pretty darn clear:

Goal 1: Put a human face on the tens of millions of average Americans from every social, political, and economic strata who have had to put on hold plans to have a job, form a family, own a home, and live a normal life as the result of the dysfunctional mess that the United States has become. Occupy Wall Street is a way to let people across the country know that they are not alone in their struggles.

Goal 2: Spotlight that the industrial-scale financial fraud at the core of the modern financial-services industry is a major source of this mess, and - because the entire political and legal system has been bought off - virtually nobody is being held to account. Just as we have the right to defend ourselves when we are being mugged, Americans have the right to defend ourselves from corporations that exploit our markets while moving jobs overseas or that evade taxes while using our roads, schools, and other public infrastructure.

Goal 3: Point out that no partisan "10 Point Plan" will solve the mess we're in. The profound changes that we need will require the hard, slow work of rebuilding popular consensus by engaging with ideas from every point in the political and social spectrum. Wall Street and big corporate interests love never-ending political paralysis precisely because it leaves them free to cold-bloodedly strip the country bare.

You can agree with Occupy Wall Street, or not. But for those who are having a hard time getting it, as Upton Sinclair observed, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

Not sure how I feel about goals 1 and 2. Goal 3 makes sense although not sure of the usefulness of such a statement.