Wall Street protesters: We're in for the long haul

[Darth Wagtaros]

I get the idea that they are angry, but what they want done is a bit more vague.  It's just like the Tea Party who were 'angry as Hell and not going to take it anymore', but beyond that it was pretty confused.  Anyway I still don't like mobs.  Liberal mobs, Conservative mobs, neutral disinterested mobs... any kind of mob.

Mobs don't worry about which public toilets are accessible 24 hours and only use the toilets of businesses that put up pro-protest signs (both the case in London).  They also don't get excited because a generous benefactor's arranged for a delivery of vegan food from Waitrose (again London).

I'm pretty supportive of them, I'll go down this afternoon.  I always find the idea that protest movement's should be releasing coherent manifestos pretty weird.  They're protesting - normally that means they're against something more than about to release an interesting list of policies.  This is the diference between, say, the Tea Party and the Cato Institute.

ok, but if they are out to "change the world", shouldn't they have at least a remotely coherent common agenda? Or if that is not a requirement, why taking them seriously is?

Because.

Mob + Protest + ? = World Embetterment

[Tamas]

browse back, the vocal ones of them claim they are there to change, well, stuff

[Tamas]

The day I realized I do not live in a democracy, a free market or have a particularly noble profession came in 2005 at a company Christmas Party of the largest mortgage company in the country. The dinner was at Spago in Beverly Hills, CA – we had a 5 course dinner pumpkin soup with each guests initials scribed in garnishment, fresh ricotta gnocchi with ragout of sonoma lamb and one of the better filet mignons I've had to date. During a brief cocktail reception I ran into a senior vice president of Securities and after a few glasses of Macallan began to talk shop. The Fed had just completed it's 13th successive .25 point raise to Fed Funds days earlier. I asked him if they had ever modeled for a 10% correction in housing. The executive explained to me such a forecast was beyond the most bearish of projections he had heard and that I should be more realistic. I insisted "say in the event of another terrorist attack or risk unknown to the firm, perhaps." Without skipping a beat he interrupted " ...even if something like that... your 10%, say Case-Shiller numbers, the government would step in." I was waiting for the relief laughter that never came; he was serious. The moment stuck with me for the rest of the night like I had just seen a bad freeway accident. As I collected my guests and left through the stain-glass windowed doors out to the street on Canon Drive I heard a small group of protestors shouting outside. I hoped for a second as I approached that they had somehow had been inside and heard what I  had moments ago, that they had some consciousness of the situation or were at least protesting the mortgage company incidentally on behalf of a unionized construction company.

No –a green haired, TV extra screamed in my face "Take veal off the menu! Shame on Spago!" and attempted to hand me a PETA flyer.

http://bachelortrade.com/2011/10/15/sunday-school-the-great-illusion/

[Ideologue]

Just because one thing is important doesn't mean something else is not.

[Malthus]

A growing split in society between "haves" and "have-nots", and a growing decrease in social mobility between these two groups, are real and substantial problems.

Unfortunately, they are problems without any really easy solution.

I used to think that an overall increase in socialist measures (I know folks in the US are sometimes allergic to the term "socialist", but whatever) would, in and of itself, be a solution. But it isn't as simple as that, as part of the problem is surely cultural - merely redistributing resources will not solve it, as creating new entitlements has the potential to exacerbate the cultural divide.

That being noted, a bunch of anarcho-professional protesters dumpster diving around downtown isn't going to point the way to any solutions. If anything, they obscure the existence of the problems.

[Razgovory]

I get the idea that they are angry, but what they want done is a bit more vague.  It's just like the Tea Party who were 'angry as Hell and not going to take it anymore', but beyond that it was pretty confused.  Anyway I still don't like mobs.  Liberal mobs, Conservative mobs, neutral disinterested mobs... any kind of mob.

Mobs don't worry about which public toilets are accessible 24 hours and only use the toilets of businesses that put up pro-protest signs (both the case in London).  They also don't get excited because a generous benefactor's arranged for a delivery of vegan food from Waitrose (again London).

I'm pretty supportive of them, I'll go down this afternoon.  I always find the idea that protest movement's should be releasing coherent manifestos pretty weird.  They're protesting - normally that means they're against something more than about to release an interesting list of policies.  This is the diference between, say, the Tea Party and the Cato Institute.

I don't know what you are on about with the toilets.  The Tea Party didn't have a coherent list of policies besides "take our country back!".  The Tea Party caucus did, but many of those clashed with what what the polls conducted on the mob indicated.  They didn't care because the Tea Party types all get their news from sources that were careful not to tell them what their elected representatives were actually doing.

[Tamas]

A growing split in society between "haves" and "have-nots", and a growing decrease in social mobility between these two groups, are real and substantial problems.

Unfortunately, they are problems without any really easy solution.

I used to think that an overall increase in socialist measures (I know folks in the US are sometimes allergic to the term "socialist", but whatever) would, in and of itself, be a solution. But it isn't as simple as that, as part of the problem is surely cultural - merely redistributing resources will not solve it, as creating new entitlements has the potential to exacerbate the cultural divide.

That being noted, a bunch of anarcho-professional protesters dumpster diving around downtown isn't going to point the way to any solutions. If anything, they obscure the existence of the problems.

I sometimes get the impression that the main problem re. social mobility is that unskilled people has zero chance to progress since they compete with Chinese slaves now. And that (the working classes of the world moving toward a roughly equal standard of living) is not reversible in the short term I am afraid, sans a civil war in China.

[garbon]

A growing split in society between "haves" and "have-nots", and a growing decrease in social mobility between these two groups, are real and substantial problems.

Unfortunately, they are problems without any really easy solution.

I used to think that an overall increase in socialist measures (I know folks in the US are sometimes allergic to the term "socialist", but whatever) would, in and of itself, be a solution. But it isn't as simple as that, as part of the problem is surely cultural - merely redistributing resources will not solve it, as creating new entitlements has the potential to exacerbate the cultural divide.

That being noted, a bunch of anarcho-professional protesters dumpster diving around downtown isn't going to point the way to any solutions. If anything, they obscure the existence of the problems.

and

[Neil]

Not to mention, your argument is a classic slippery slope - for the same reasons as you mention, the employer should be able to check a prospective employee's health, family and marital status, DNA, religious beliefs, sexual orientation etc. - all these factors can statistically affect the risk associated with employing the employee, some of them even more so than the credit rating.

No, YOUR argument is a classic slippery slope.

That said, being gay is a huge factor in dishonesty (as a gay's whole life is a lie), so I most assuredly would never knowingly employ one.

It's what my body tells me.

Don't feel bad.  I would never employ an anti-vaccine crazy either.

[Grallon]

...

That being noted, a bunch of anarcho-professional protesters dumpster diving around downtown isn't going to point the way to any solutions. If anything, they obscure the existence of the problems.

These protesters may not have a common 'program' or a common 'agenda' but they share a sentiment: rage.  They are like fuel lying about.  What's needed is a match to ignite them.  Knowing how our greedy elites operate - it won't be too long before their incompetence produces such a spark.

And then we shall see - won't we?




G.

[Habbaku]

Then we'll see a few hundred morons get locked up post-haste for trying violence against the state when they don't have popular support?

[Malthus]

...

That being noted, a bunch of anarcho-professional protesters dumpster diving around downtown isn't going to point the way to any solutions. If anything, they obscure the existence of the problems.

These protesters may not have a common 'program' or a common 'agenda' but they share a sentiment: rage.  They are like fuel lying about.  What's needed is a match to ignite them.  Knowing how our greedy elites operate - it won't be too long before their incompetence produces such a spark.

And then we shall see - won't we?




G.

Naw, many of these protesters tend to have the easily-dismissed sort of rage that is impotent because it is omnidirectional.

An army of homeless, jobless people who used to be homeowners and wage-earners is one thing. An army of dreadlocked PETA activists, Freegan dumpster-divers and professional Anarchist panhandlers is another. The first creates genuine unease and concern, but the second inspires little but contempt. To the extent that the public associates these protests with the second group, the protests lose force. 

[Neil]

Then we'll see a few hundred morons get locked up post-haste for trying violence against the state when they don't have popular support?

Indeed.  These people are utterly incapable of getting public support, because they're so callow.

[Tamas]

Yeah.

A lot of people are anxious to have a repeat of the 60s, especially since they missed it. It may happen (altough it was much more of a cultural revolution than any other kind), but not now. Maybe if the economy tanks again like in 2008.

[MadImmortalMan]

It would have to go back to being as good as it was in 2008 first...