Affirmative Action the poll!

[The Brain]

And before someone asks - yes we try very hard to develop the "uncouth" ones but there is an amazing level of internal resistance to changing one's cultural behaviour like this. And telling someone they make too much noise when eating or should get a haircut more often is surprisingly more difficult (not to mention, difficult to follow) than telling someone they should refresh their knowledge of the Civil Code.

Why don't you just tell them what to wear and how to act? You're gay aren't you? I've seen TV.

[Martinus]

It's not easy to tell something like that without alienating them. Plus it never ends - you can't make up 18+ years of lack of manners with a few helpful tips.

[Ideologue]

I'd rather be Canadian.

Then by all means, go be one.

And abandon the country I love to anarchists?

Too late to worry about that one--the Soviet Union is no more.

P.S. You and derspeiss are the anarchists.

[Razgovory]

I still think Derspiess and DPS are the same person.  Maybe DPS is a shorter version and that's why he left out some of the letters.

[garbon]

I voted no as that's what I feel in spirit but I'd certainly never cast a real vote to cancel policies that help me.

[Razgovory]

I voted no as that's what I feel in spirit but I'd certainly never cast a real vote to cancel policies that help me.

Don't ever change.

[Strix]

Yes, we most certainly need to keep Affirmative Action. If anything, it needs to be expanded.

[alfred russel]

Since Affirmative Action isn't quotas, I wasn't sure how to answer the question, but said no since quotas are unjust.

I think that difference is semantic in many cases. If I'm in charge of hiring, and one of the key criterea is diversity, then I know I need to put together a team with what passes as a diverse workforce. A more concrete example is women in management: if 15% are women, and an affirmative action initiative is launched to increase women in management, then I'd say you have an implicit quota to get women into management of at least 16%.

I don't have a problem with affirmative action in general, I just think it needs to be more targeted. If you look at federal small business programs, you have programs for women, hispanics, african americans, asians, and pacific islanders. It would be easier to say, "everyone but white guys (except for those that came via Latin America)." Plus, if the purpose is to overcome historical discrimination in the US that has disadvantaged groups, does this even make sense? Most Vietnamese came to the country around the Vietnam War, and I really doubt many of Aboriginal Australian heritage have ancestry from the 4 guys that were in the country prior to World War II.

[Fate]

Since Affirmative Action isn't quotas, I wasn't sure how to answer the question, but said no since quotas are unjust.

I think that difference is semantic in many cases. If I'm in charge of hiring, and one of the key criterea is diversity, then I know I need to put together a team with what passes as a diverse workforce. A more concrete example is women in management: if 15% are women, and an affirmative action initiative is launched to increase women in management, then I'd say you have an implicit quota to get women into management of at least 16%.

I don't have a problem with affirmative action in general, I just think it needs to be more targeted. If you look at federal small business programs, you have programs for women, hispanics, african americans, asians, and pacific islanders. It would be easier to say, "everyone but white guys (except for those that came via Latin America)." Plus, if the purpose is to overcome historical discrimination in the US that has disadvantaged groups, does this even make sense? Most Vietnamese came to the country around the Vietnam War, and I really doubt many of Aboriginal Australian heritage have ancestry from the 4 guys that were in the country prior to World War II.

Are there still (or were there ever?) affirmative action programs for Asians in higher education and the such? I always hear the Chinese and Indian kids bitching about affirmative action as if they were white males.

[mongers]

Well, I work in a very "people" business, i.e. where human capital is most important. We are big  on diversity but it is less about recruiting people from minorities to give them "a chance" and more about reaching out to brilliant people of any color, race, creed or sexuality and for example funding sponsored stipends for them. That way by the time these people reach recruitable age, they are already molded in a way we need them.

Recruiting lawyers with ghetto accents would be a disaster. We need to work to get them out of the ghetto when they can still be changed.

But doesn't that imply you yourself were the beneficiary of affirmative action ?

[MadImmortalMan]

Well, I work in a very "people" business, i.e. where human capital is most important. We are big  on diversity but it is less about recruiting people from minorities to give them "a chance" and more about reaching out to brilliant people of any color, race, creed or sexuality and for example funding sponsored stipends for them. That way by the time these people reach recruitable age, they are already molded in a way we need them.

Recruiting lawyers with ghetto accents would be a disaster. We need to work to get them out of the ghetto when they can still be changed.

But doesn't that imply you yourself were the beneficiary of affirmative action ?

And you guys want to keep it?   

[Martinus]

Well, I work in a very "people" business, i.e. where human capital is most important. We are big  on diversity but it is less about recruiting people from minorities to give them "a chance" and more about reaching out to brilliant people of any color, race, creed or sexuality and for example funding sponsored stipends for them. That way by the time these people reach recruitable age, they are already molded in a way we need them.

Recruiting lawyers with ghetto accents would be a disaster. We need to work to get them out of the ghetto when they can still be changed.

But doesn't that imply you yourself were the beneficiary of affirmative action ?

And you guys want to keep it?   

I think it was a jab at me for not being brilliant.

Considering it came from an aging hipster whose main achievement is to ride a bike between two hellholes, I am not too perturbed.

[derspiess]

but I'd certainly never cast a real vote to cancel policies that help me.

Wow.  So I guess you can't fault whites who voted in favor of Apartheid & Jim Crowe laws.

[Razgovory]

but I'd certainly never cast a real vote to cancel policies that help me.

Wow.  So I guess you can't fault whites who voted in favor of Apartheid & Jim Crowe laws.

Do people normally vote for things that don't benefit them?

[mongers]

but I'd certainly never cast a real vote to cancel policies that help me.

Wow.  So I guess you can't fault whites who voted in favor of Apartheid & Jim Crowe laws.

Do people normally vote for things that don't benefit them?

The majority of Republican voters ?