News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

Most overrated WW2 commander

Started by Threviel, July 28, 2011, 02:27:58 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Who is the most overrated commander of WW2?

Rommel
9 (17.3%)
von Manstein
0 (0%)
Guderian
0 (0%)
von Rundstedt
1 (1.9%)
Kesselring
0 (0%)
Montgomery
11 (21.2%)
Slim
0 (0%)
Auchinleck
0 (0%)
Bomber Harris
1 (1.9%)
Cunningham
0 (0%)
de Gaulle
2 (3.8%)
Eisenhower
0 (0%)
MacArthur
7 (13.5%)
Patton
11 (21.2%)
Nimitz
1 (1.9%)
Halsey
0 (0%)
Zhukov
5 (9.6%)
Rokossovsky
0 (0%)
Konev
0 (0%)
Vasilevsky
0 (0%)
Timoshenko
0 (0%)
Chiang Kai-Chek
0 (0%)
Mao
2 (3.8%)
Tito
0 (0%)
Yamashita
0 (0%)
Yamamoto
0 (0%)
Nagumo
0 (0%)
Mannerheim
0 (0%)
Jaron/other
2 (3.8%)

Total Members Voted: 51

Razgovory

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 28, 2011, 03:25:32 AM
Rommel seems to be the one bandied about in "greatest WW2 general" discussions with the least to show for it on the field, so probably him.

That's who I went with.  I think his reputation has to do with the oddities of propaganda.  The Nazis propped him up because he close to them and had a good relationship with some of the top Nazis.  The British propped him up to help explain away their failures in North Africa and make their victories more glorious.  After the war the surviving German officers propped him up as an example of a German officer who was both brilliant and opposed to Hitler.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Viking

this stinks of a confederate style verlorene Sache taint. Rommel as Stonewall and Monty as McClellan bs.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Martinus

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 28, 2011, 03:25:32 AM
Rommel seems to be the one bandied about in "greatest WW2 general" discussions with the least to show for it on the field, so probably him.

If you go through London, there are Monty's statues everywhere. :P

Ideologue

Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Martinus on July 28, 2011, 05:08:25 AM
If you go through London, there are Monty's statues everywhere. :P

Ah, well in what I've read about him (much of it on Languish) he is suitably maligned.  :lol:
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

jimmy olsen

It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Richard Hakluyt

The point is it is "overrated" not worst. I haven't heard a word in praise of Monty since about 1970, he was very overrated in 1945 but that is a different matter.

Now Zhukov, yes............hmmm. There is a type of documentary programme made about WW2 nowadays. It is the one where the result of WW2 was determined on the Russian front, where Zhukov is an utter genius who engineered the Soviet victory and where any apparent errors by Zhukov were in fact Stalin's  :D

With that sort of rating it is perfectly possible for Zhukov to both be a great general and heavily overrated.

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 28, 2011, 06:13:57 AMIt is the one where the result of WW2 was determined on the Russian front, where Zhukov is an utter genius who engineered the Soviet victory and where any apparent errors by Zhukov were in fact Stalin's  :D

With that sort of rating it is perfectly possible for Zhukov to both be a great general and heavily overrated.
Having a boss like Stalin or Hitler is great for a general. You can claim responsibility for every success, and for all the things that went wrong you can just claim "the crazy man" made me do it and everyone will nod their head.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Ideologue

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 28, 2011, 06:13:57 AM
The point is it is "overrated" not worst. I haven't heard a word in praise of Monty since about 1970, he was very overrated in 1945 but that is a different matter.

Now Zhukov, yes............hmmm. There is a type of documentary programme made about WW2 nowadays. It is the one where the result of WW2 was determined on the Russian front, where Zhukov is an utter genius who engineered the Soviet victory and where any apparent errors by Zhukov were in fact Stalin's  :D

With that sort of rating it is perfectly possible for Zhukov to both be a great general and heavily overrated.

Yep.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

11B4V

"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Drakken

After a heavy pondering that lasted 10 seconds, I went with MacArthur.

Warspite

Quote from: Martinus on July 28, 2011, 05:08:25 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 28, 2011, 03:25:32 AM
Rommel seems to be the one bandied about in "greatest WW2 general" discussions with the least to show for it on the field, so probably him.

If you go through London, there are Monty's statues everywhere. :P

I know there's one outside the Ministry of Defence on Whitehall (along with Slim and Alanbrooke). Where are all the others?
" SIR – I must commend you on some of your recent obituaries. I was delighted to read of the deaths of Foday Sankoh (August 9th), and Uday and Qusay Hussein (July 26th). Do you take requests? "

OVO JE SRBIJA
BUDALO, OVO JE POSTA

Malthus

For "general time has been kindest to", I'd vote Slim - he's like the anti-Monty: mostly overlooked at the time, historians these days tend to rate him very highly.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

Viking

Quote from: Warspite on July 28, 2011, 09:34:52 AM

I know there's one outside the Ministry of Defence on Whitehall (along with Slim and Alanbrooke). Where are all the others?

from wiki

QuoteA statue of Montgomery can be found outside the Ministry of Defence (the M.o.D.) in Whitehall, alongside those of Field Marshal Lord Slim and Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke. Another statue of Viscount Montgomery can be found in Brussels, Belgium, watching a Montgomery Square. Another statue of Montgomery is in Southsea, Hampshire, opposite the 'D' Day Museum.

Interestingly enough he got unmade as an honorary citizen of Montgomery, Alabama after dissing Eisenhower in his memoirs.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Viking

Quote from: Malthus on July 28, 2011, 09:43:12 AM
For "general time has been kindest to", I'd vote Slim - he's like the anti-Monty: mostly overlooked at the time, historians these days tend to rate him very highly.

yeah, having the reputation of being the best CW general of the war as well as leading "the forgotten army" sort of means everybody is a slim fanboi.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.