Breaking News - Major Terrorist Attack In Oslo, Norway

[Razgovory]

Why is Poland's Jewish population so low?

I wonder...

Keep in mind though that Europeans never called no one [sic] a nigger and never had colored water fountains.

Look up Enoch Powell.

[Neil]

The EU Commission has called for pan-European tightening of gun laws after this.

What's the point?  Aren't they already pretty tight?

[Josquius]

Yeah, Norway already has decent gun laws AFAIK. Even with the most perfect laws in the world you'll still sometimes get the kind of crime they're trying to prevent popping up.
The only way to truly stop gun crime would be outright banning guns which of course, in Norway particularly, just isn't going to happen, nor would it be a great idea.

[Neil]

G.

I'm not sure which self-delusion I find more pathetic-your intellectual self-importance or  pretense to cultural superiority.  If it were up to me, you'd be permabanned for this post.  Rarely have I agreed with Martinus more.

Isn't intellectual self-importance and pretense generally your MO?

See, this is why I run the permaban machine, because I keep a cooler head that you guys.  Anger management guys, seriously.

[Neil]

Yeah, Norway already has decent gun laws AFAIK. Even with the most perfect laws in the world you'll still sometimes get the kind of crime they're trying to prevent popping up.
The only way to truly stop gun crime would be outright banning guns which of course, in Norway particularly, just isn't going to happen, nor would it be a great idea.

And even then that won't stop gun crime because you can't uninvent the firearm, nor the EU's enormous weapons industry that makes guns available.

[Neil]

There were two security guards on the island who are missing. Obviously unarmed and probably dead.

Ouch.  I mean, I can see burning the kids down.  They're at a young socialist camp, so they're obviously part of the group that you could define as his enemies.  They were probably talking about how people like the gunman should be put in camps and killed, so he got them first.

The security guards, on the other hand, are just rent-a-cops that were doing a job.  Shooting a guy doing a job just because he brings a flashlight to a gun fight is a bit cruel.

[Neil]

I think it is rather silly how opponents of multiculturalism fail to understand that it is not an ideology in itself, but rather an attempt to keep the lid on globalisation to prevent it from boiling over into some sort of global upheaval.

The West is not a victim of multiculturalism or even a besieged fortress. We are beneficiaries of globalisation, and it has progressed from the 19th century's raw material globalisation to the 20th century's goods and services globalisation to the 21st centuries's employment market globalisation. The world has changed - largely, differences similar to the old class divides are no longer vertical but geographical - we, in the West are the upper class, the "third world" is the working/lower class.

Any form of isolationism or autarky is simply unworkable in the modern world - and more importantly, the anti-immigration crowd would not be willing to pay the price for it, economically. And if we continue treating the third world as helots, slaves and serfs, without rights, we will have a revolution on our hands. So the question is not if we should let immigrants in, but how.

Except that your post has nothing to do with multiculturalism, and everything to do with immigration.

It's sort of sad that some people actually believe that you can only have immigration while accepting the cultures of the immigrants.

[Grallon]

...

The US melting pot works precisely because you can bring your own food, your own god and your own music, but you will damn sure adopt the American dream and the values of the enlightenment. Multiculturalism and cultural relativism means that societies like Norway cannot insist that immigrants adopt the Norwegian dream and cannot insist that immigrants adopt the values of the enlightenment because we cannot, as a society, assert that our values are better than theirs.

This is the crux of the problem.  This self loathing attitude induced by multiculturalism and distilled though public institutions and discourse.  It paralyzes to varying degrees those societies it affects and generates alienation among the citizenry.  Recognizing this trend *does not* mean excusing or justifying what happened in Norway - but it certainly offers part of an explanation.  The longer we remain in denial about it - the more likely other such events will occur.  And I have to wonder if the outpouring we're seeing in this thread would have been as strident had the man slaughtered 100+ pakis instead of 100+ Aryan kids?



G.

[Neil]

...

The US melting pot works precisely because you can bring your own food, your own god and your own music, but you will damn sure adopt the American dream and the values of the enlightenment. Multiculturalism and cultural relativism means that societies like Norway cannot insist that immigrants adopt the Norwegian dream and cannot insist that immigrants adopt the values of the enlightenment because we cannot, as a society, assert that our values are better than theirs.

This is the crux of the problem.  This self loathing attitude induced by multiculturalism and distilled though public institutions and discourse.  It paralyzes to varying degrees those societies it affects and generates alienation among the citizenry.  Recognizing this trend *does not* mean excusing or justifying what happened in Norway - but it certainly offers part of an explanation.  The longer we remain in denial about it - the more likely other such events will occur.  And I have to wonder if the outpouring we're seeing in this thread would have been as strident had the man slaughtered 100+ pakis instead of 100+ Aryan kids?

Maybe, maybe not.  Norwegian officials would certainly be even more strident, for fear that the already militant Muslim immigrants would take to the streets and burn the place down.  If that had happened, Norway would have been an Islamic Republic inside a week.

[Slargos]

 

Never. Fucking. Mind.

[Queequeg]

100+ pakis instead of 100+ Aryan kids?

Poor choice of words.

[Syt]

Austria   9,000

I used to live near the Lauder Chabad Campus, so I saw quite a few Orthodox Jews in my area. And this month the Maccabi Games were held in Vienna.

But my main exposure is Israeli Falafel or Books & Bagels.

A co-worker recently attended a Brit Milah, though.

[Kleves]

I was at a drift/racing event yesterday, and they had a moment of silence for the dead kids. So Norway has that going for them.

[Slargos]

They're now claiming he still had "significant" amounts of ammo on him when he was arrested.

Still people missing, so it's expected the toll will rise. One died in the hospital today.

What a mess.

[Jacob]

I agree. Well, not with the last part, obviously, since I represent most of what you both are against, but on the solution.

Prime minister Stoltenberg said "to fight this with more democracy and more openness", and the first point of order would be to recognise criticism and alternatives to the current state of affairs as legitimate, as to avoid further cases of complete and utter alienation. No more underground activity and rejection of letters to the editor, but open and free exchange of views.
I fear the opposite will be the case.

Hmm... if I understand what you're saying (and Viking too) it's that "we should understand what ABB is saying, why he's so alienated and change our society to be more in line with what he wants to avoid alienating people like him further."

I'm not sure that sentiment sits that well with me, whether it's Muslim terrorists, people like ABB or anyone else.

Or did I misunderstand?