Football (Soccer) Thread

[Gups]

Strange how poor China are at football given it's a big sport there with lots of funding.

I remember from an article from years ago (things must have changed since then) that basically said that the Chinese national team was an absolutely corrupt mess, in which coaches would accept bribes from players in order to be selected for games, and things  like that. Add to that the semi-collapse of their national league and things don't look good for them, given that barely any Chinese players play abroad.

Another criticism I read regarding Chinese sports training is that it produces excellent individual performers but is terrible at producing good teams (I read also back in the day about their long term plans regarding how they intended to set up their men's basketball team during Yao Ming's era and it was completely bonkers). Checking their historical performance at the Summer Olympics, for instance, you can see that they barely get medals in team sports (the exception seems to be women's voleyball), while they get them by the bucketload in individual sports, so there might be something to it as well.

The thing is that they seem to have gone backwards despite Xi being a huge fan and massive investment at every level of the game. They were good by Asian standards in the 1990s and early 2000s - reguularly getting into the last four of the Asian Cub ann qualifying or getting very close to qualifying for the WC but have had a terrible record since

[The Larch]

Strange how poor China are at football given it's a big sport there with lots of funding.

I remember from an article from years ago (things must have changed since then) that basically said that the Chinese national team was an absolutely corrupt mess, in which coaches would accept bribes from players in order to be selected for games, and things  like that. Add to that the semi-collapse of their national league and things don't look good for them, given that barely any Chinese players play abroad.

Another criticism I read regarding Chinese sports training is that it produces excellent individual performers but is terrible at producing good teams (I read also back in the day about their long term plans regarding how they intended to set up their men's basketball team during Yao Ming's era and it was completely bonkers). Checking their historical performance at the Summer Olympics, for instance, you can see that they barely get medals in team sports (the exception seems to be women's voleyball), while they get them by the bucketload in individual sports, so there might be something to it as well.

The thing is that they seem to have gone backwards despite Xi being a huge fan and massive investment at every level of the game. They were good by Asian standards in the 1990s and early 2000s - reguularly getting into the last four of the Asian Cub ann qualifying or getting very close to qualifying for the WC but have had a terrible record since

Just checked their performance in the Asian Cup and it seems that they've been plumetting since 2004. Around that time I believe that the Chinese League became rife with corruption and match fixing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%932009_Chinese_football_match-fixing_scandals), to the point that the government had to intervene in a massive investigation in the early 2010s, that must not have helped. How they haven't recovered by now, I don't really know.

[Josquius]

Incidentally china's "rise" to a mega Corp sponsored import the foreign stars league of corruption fairly coincides with Japan and Korea stepping away from this model and becoming decent domestic leagues.

Saudi Arabia seems to do well in the Asian Cup too. I know nothing of their setup but they don't strike me as being built on this big money model the way the gulf nation teams are?

[Jacob]

Strange how poor China are at football given it's a big sport there with lots of funding.

As I understand it their domestic league is rife with corruption and match-fixing. I also, a few years ago, read of a team - and I think it was in the top league (though not a top team) - where the owners (some industrial conglomerate) left the players stranded and basically stopped paying them from one day to the next, due to shifting corporate priorities (I think they wanted to sell the team, but couldn't, so just stopped paying). I may be misremembering the details, but it was something egregious like that.

The short version is, however, that that local talent development is awful for a variety of reasons.

[The Larch]

Strange how poor China are at football given it's a big sport there with lots of funding.

As I understand it their domestic league is rife with corruption and match-fixing. I also, a few years ago, read of a team - and I think it was in the top league (though not a top team) - where the owners (some industrial conglomerate) left the players stranded and basically stopped paying them from one day to the next, due to shifting corporate priorities (I think they wanted to sell the team, but couldn't, so just stopped paying). I may be misremembering the details, but it was something egregious like that.

The short version is, however, that that local talent development is awful for a variety of reasons.

Might that team be Jiangsu? They won the league in November 2020, and by February 2021 their owners, Suning Holdings, announced that all their teams (senior, youth and women) would cease operations immediately due to financial difficulties.

I mean, if not even the league champions are immune from corporate shenanigans...

[Josephus]

Sunderland lost 6-0 to an inferior team on the weekend. The manager was promptly sacked.
Interestingly just last week he made a comment about a player being out with heart trouble being due to the covid vaccine.
I expect the local anti vaxers are in a crisis over this.

I can't wait to see that on Netfilix

[Jacob]

Might that team be Jiangsu? They won the league in November 2020, and by February 2021 their owners, Suning Holdings, announced that all their teams (senior, youth and women) would cease operations immediately due to financial difficulties.

I mean, if not even the league champions are immune from corporate shenanigans...

Yeah that's probably the story I vaguely remembered. And wow, I didn't realize it was the league champions.

But yeah, domestic talent is going to have a hard time developing in those type of conditions, I expect.

[Sheilbh]

Incidentally china's "rise" to a mega Corp sponsored import the foreign stars league of corruption fairly coincides with Japan and Korea stepping away from this model and becoming decent domestic leagues.

I thought China had clamped down on that model (e.g. Oscar) and the big goal was to try and develop domestic talent instead. But with very limited results.

There was definitely a period when it was "go to China" for certain types of player but I thought that was over - they go to the Gulf now.

[The Larch]

Incidentally china's "rise" to a mega Corp sponsored import the foreign stars league of corruption fairly coincides with Japan and Korea stepping away from this model and becoming decent domestic leagues.

I thought China had clamped down on that model (e.g. Oscar) and the big goal was to try and develop domestic talent instead. But with very limited results.

There was definitely a period when it was "go to China" for certain types of player but I thought that was over - they go to the Gulf now.

Yup, that model is gone for China, nowadays you check the foreigners playing there and there are just a couple of reasonably big names.

The fact that many of the teams' corporate backers/owners are going through dire straits is not a coincidence.

[FunkMonk]

Nice to see the US continue the tradition of playing home games against Central American teams in the highest latitudes (and coldest temperatures) possible 

[Josquius]

Incidentally china's "rise" to a mega Corp sponsored import the foreign stars league of corruption fairly coincides with Japan and Korea stepping away from this model and becoming decent domestic leagues.

I thought China had clamped down on that model (e.g. Oscar) and the big goal was to try and develop domestic talent instead. But with very limited results.

There was definitely a period when it was "go to China" for certain types of player but I thought that was over - they go to the Gulf now.

Yeah, I'm speaking of their falling performance in the Asian champions league and the rise of that model. Which covid has killed.

[crazy canuck]

Canada beat El Salvador yesterday - three more games to go.  Fingers are firmly crossed.  Two are against Panama and Costa Rica - currently sitting 4 and 5 so those could be tough wins.

[Jacob]

Hutchinson's goal was bizarre, but we'll take it

[Josephus]

Canada beat El Salvador yesterday - three more games to go.  Fingers are firmly crossed.  Two are against Panama and Costa Rica - currently sitting 4 and 5 so those could be tough wins.

Playing against Panama and Costa Rica will be tough...but....I think Canada qualifying is now a pretty safe bet.

[HVC]

Canada in and Portugal potentially out. This decade has been odd so far