Football (Soccer) Thread

[Sheilbh]

Working out how I can watch Serie B in the UK to see Buffon leading Parma hopefully back to Serie A

[celedhring]

Well... this is super random.



Fredrik has bought shares in Gimnàstic (a third-tier Spanish club) and Paradox will sponsor their training shirts.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I suppose it is just a few miles down the road from their Med studio.

[Josquius]

[Admiral Yi]

Your life is reaching singularity Celery. 

[Sheilbh]

The Spurs, Everton, Crystal Palace search for a manager is the biggest game of "hold my beer" I've ever seen

[Jacob]

They're not making good choices, then?

[Sheilbh]

They're not making good choices, then?

Not even bad choices - yet.

From an Everton perspective it's like the board is leaking ever less popular options - gauging fan reaction and then choosing the worst. So we've had suggestions of getting back with Moyes or Roberto Martinez, then we had links with Graham Potter (which would be my choice) before swerving into Nuno Espirito Santos. He wasn't universally popular but I think most people had reconciled themselves to it before, at the last minute, apparently deciding to go with Raphael Benitez - the mere rumour of which has already caused protest banners and grafitti at Goodison

Similarly Spurs started off being interested in Ten Haag who then extended his contract with Ajax. Apparently Poch was keen to come back but then PSG made it clear they'd require a huge pay-out. But either of those options excited people - then they moved on so Spurs also turned to Graham Potter before one day of links with Gattuso (as TV writer Joe Barton described him: "violent Serie A headbutt gnome") which caused lots of fan unrest on social media. So they've now turned to Nuno Espirito Santos causing the number one trend in the UK at one point to be #notonuno

Meanwhile Palace are trying to replace Roy Hodgson. They were absolutely thrilled to be really close to getting Nuno Espirito Santo - until he pulled out for talks with Everton. But they moved on and were again, absolutely, thrilled to get Lucien Favre - until he decided he needed a longer break from football. The day after he told Palace this they received news that his work permit had been approved

It's just been incredible. Spurs and Everton appear to be in chaos, dismaying their fans more and more with each decision they make - while Palace are apparently making really good decisions that get their fans really excited only for them to collapse at the last minute in really unfortunate ways. It's been kind of crazy watching it all develop.

In part it's possibly because there's just not many good/exciting managers out there at the minute - and I sympathise with Everton who were let down by Ancelotti. But Spurs fired Mourinho in April and Hodgson announced he'd be retiring in May - so I feel like they should have planned ahead a little more than this shambles.

[FunkMonk]

I can't even imagine Rafa at Everton 

Would you take Arteta? 

[Sheilbh]

I would love Arteta

But that's because Arteta is probably one of my favourite Everton players and I actually before we got Ancelotti really hoped he'd come here

We do not have the players to do what he wants to do though. God help the next manager who tries to introduce Gylfi to the concept of pressing. Or running. But I think there'd be a bit of patience for him because he's still very popular - and part of Everton folklore because we sold him on the last day of the window for £15 million and didn't bring anyone in so any time there's a controversy about transfers you'll hear someone in Goodison shouting "WHERE'S THE ARTETA MONEY, BILL?"

Plus I think the mood I am sensing is very much a year zero approach. The only person who wants to short-cut their way to success by spaffing cash on players from bigger clubs and looking for a manager like Rafa

And on Rafa - I just can't see a scenario where it goes well. There are already more banners at Goodison over this and the fans will have zero patience with him so I think unless we win every game for the first couple of months people won't get behind him and the atmosphere will be toxic: Allardyce and late-era Martinez toxic. It'll take a loss of form in one (1) game before I think there'll be chants against him and protests. But I think even if he does well it's likely that lots of fans will credit the players and give him nothing.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's protests against the owner before this season's finished (unless we win a trophy ) and it feels like billionaires don't like being challenged and I worry we'll go the way of Villa (optimistically) or Sunderland (less optimistically). Except we're massively in debt (to him) with a large expensive stadium project on the horizon so nothing could possibly go wrong if our billionaire owner turns against us

Also weird is that apparently Usmanov is deciding/very strongly advising on who takes over. I know that him and Moshiri are close but technically he's only a sponsor and I wonder if the rumours that Moshiri's just a front for him are true

Edit: And another thing - at this point I feel like Rafa must have some weird kink for highly unpleasant work environments because except for China, all of his recent jobs have either involved significant fan opposition (Everton, Chelsea, Madrid) or difficult owners (Newcastle, Inter, Napoli). Why do you keep doing this?

[FunkMonk]

I'm not clued in on the ownership structure at Everton, but can the club "splash the cash" every season? Obviously not Man City/United/Chelsea levels but Everton is not a poor club, right? Because any manager is going to ask for decent funds to bring in their players, which is exactly what Arteta (and Edu to am extent) is doing at Arsenal right now.

There's a lot of questioning amongst Arsenal fans I've seen on the internet about Arsenal's recruitment strategy, since a number of links have gone quiet (Neves, Onana) or Arsenal got beaten to (Buendía). Now with Ben White, fans are asking why spend 50m on a defender when Saliba looked impressive enough on loan at Nice. So I guess what I'm saying is, Arteta is trying to build something but no one is quite sure what it is yet, and spending 50m on a CB when midfield is woefully lacking right now seems kinda dumb. And Arsenal, while rich, don't have infinite money like United or Chelsea. Arsenal might spend 100m this entire window while City buy Kane and Grealish for 100m each 

I remember Usmanov trying to buy Kroenke out of his shares of Arsenal years ago. I guess he's turning Everton into his thing now?

[Sheilbh]

I'm not clued in on the ownership structure at Everton, but can the club "splash the cash" every season? Obviously not Man City/United/Chelsea levels but Everton is not a poor club, right? Because any manager is going to ask for decent funds to bring in their players, which is exactly what Arteta (and Edu to am extent) is doing at Arsenal right now.

I think we are at the edges of financial fair play - but I think the view of the owner now after stuff with Man City is that FFP is meaningless. But he has spent £500 million in the last 5 years or so - and not improved the team But he has definitely backed all of the managers he's hired - Koeman, Allardyce, Silva and Ancelotti. He'll back whoever comes in. The issue is all of those managers are trying to do a different thing so the players are bought for different types and it just keeps getting more dysfunctional like a Frankenstein's squad.

There's a lot of questioning amongst Arsenal fans I've seen on the internet about Arsenal's recruitment strategy, since a number of links have gone quiet (Neves, Onana) or Arsenal got beaten to (Buendía). Now with Ben White, fans are asking why spend 50m on a defender when Saliba looked impressive enough on loan at Nice. So I guess what I'm saying is, Arteta is trying to build something but no one is quite sure what it is yet, and spending 50m on a CB when midfield is woefully lacking right now seems kinda dumb. And Arsenal, while rich, don't have infinite money like United or Chelsea. Arsenal might spend 100m this entire window while City buy Kane and Grealish for 100m each 

Well, quite. City are other level with cash - I read that they're motivated to get those two because of a "middling season". They won the League and the League Cup, were semi-finalists for the FA Cup and runners up for the Champions League

I listen to the David Ornstein podcast and don't fully understand what's going on at Arsenal ever. I'm still baffled by that head of recruitment who was fired very quickly and so abruptly that it makes me suspect he must have had his had in the till.

I remember Usmanov trying to buy Kroenke out of his shares of Arsenal years ago. I guess he's turning Everton into his thing now?

Yeah so Moshiri and Usmanov collectively owned that 30% stake in Arsenal. Moshiri then bought Everton. There's been loads of rumours about Usmanov's involvement, but he's never formally bought any shares - he's not formally involved with the club. But he basically gives Everton lots of money through sponsorship - I think he sponsors the training ground and has bought an option on naming the new stadium etc.

What's got slightly weird this time is apparently he has been involved in appointing a new manager and the reason Moshiri is so keen on Benitez is because Usmanov backs him (after getting a very good reference from Abramovich).

But basically there are a lot of decisions makers at Everton with different styles/agendas - I think most fans back Marcel Brands the director of football because he appears to know about football. But Moshiri pays the bills - so makes the decisions he wants but he is known to really like talking to agents etc so I'm not convinced he's actually good at making footballing decisions based on the last 5 years

Weirdly I suspect Arsenal may have dodged a bullet with avoiding them taking over

[celedhring]

If it makes you feel more at peace about Ancelotti, Sheilbh, the Spanish tax office has just released their yearly "people that owe the most taxes" list and Ancelotti makes it to the tune of €1.4 million. 

[FunkMonk]

I'm not clued in on the ownership structure at Everton, but can the club "splash the cash" every season? Obviously not Man City/United/Chelsea levels but Everton is not a poor club, right? Because any manager is going to ask for decent funds to bring in their players, which is exactly what Arteta (and Edu to am extent) is doing at Arsenal right now.

I think we are at the edges of financial fair play - but I think the view of the owner now after stuff with Man City is that FFP is meaningless. But he has spent £500 million in the last 5 years or so - and not improved the team But he has definitely backed all of the managers he's hired - Koeman, Allardyce, Silva and Ancelotti. He'll back whoever comes in. The issue is all of those managers are trying to do a different thing so the players are bought for different types and it just keeps getting more dysfunctional like a Frankenstein's squad.

There's a lot of questioning amongst Arsenal fans I've seen on the internet about Arsenal's recruitment strategy, since a number of links have gone quiet (Neves, Onana) or Arsenal got beaten to (Buendía). Now with Ben White, fans are asking why spend 50m on a defender when Saliba looked impressive enough on loan at Nice. So I guess what I'm saying is, Arteta is trying to build something but no one is quite sure what it is yet, and spending 50m on a CB when midfield is woefully lacking right now seems kinda dumb. And Arsenal, while rich, don't have infinite money like United or Chelsea. Arsenal might spend 100m this entire window while City buy Kane and Grealish for 100m each 

Well, quite. City are other level with cash - I read that they're motivated to get those two because of a "middling season". They won the League and the League Cup, were semi-finalists for the FA Cup and runners up for the Champions League

I listen to the David Ornstein podcast and don't fully understand what's going on at Arsenal ever. I'm still baffled by that head of recruitment who was fired very quickly and so abruptly that it makes me suspect he must have had his had in the till.

I remember Usmanov trying to buy Kroenke out of his shares of Arsenal years ago. I guess he's turning Everton into his thing now?

Yeah so Moshiri and Usmanov collectively owned that 30% stake in Arsenal. Moshiri then bought Everton. There's been loads of rumours about Usmanov's involvement, but he's never formally bought any shares - he's not formally involved with the club. But he basically gives Everton lots of money through sponsorship - I think he sponsors the training ground and has bought an option on naming the new stadium etc.

What's got slightly weird this time is apparently he has been involved in appointing a new manager and the reason Moshiri is so keen on Benitez is because Usmanov backs him (after getting a very good reference from Abramovich).

But basically there are a lot of decisions makers at Everton with different styles/agendas - I think most fans back Marcel Brands the director of football because he appears to know about football. But Moshiri pays the bills - so makes the decisions he wants but he is known to really like talking to agents etc so I'm not convinced he's actually good at making footballing decisions based on the last 5 years

Weirdly I suspect Arsenal may have dodged a bullet with avoiding them taking over

As far as dodging a bullet, it's like Arsenal stepped out of the way of the bullet but then fell off the cliff   

As far as recruitment, Sven Mslintat is I think who you're referencing. From what I understand, he got pushed out because Raul Sanllehi was making power plays and Sven didn't want any of it. Raul was fired last season, I believe largely because of some shady dealings ("overpaying" for Pepe and Saliba, and some quick deals with his mates/agents).

[The Larch]

Spain has just released their call-up for the Olympics, and 6 players repeat from the Euros (Unai Simón, Pau Torres, Eric García, Pedri, Dani Olmo & Oyarzábal). Don't know if that's very wise, those players are going to start the league all knackered.