Football (Soccer) Thread

[Admiral Yi]

Of course Soccer & Grid Iron are brothers.

2nd cousins twice removed.

[Zoupa]

American football is pretty much akin to if football entirely consisted of set pieces right?

Infinitely more complex, orchestrated, and interconnected.

Infinitely? Let's not exagerate.

[Admiral Yi]

Infinitely? Let's not exagerate.

No exaggeration.  All 11 players are going to have precisely defined responsibilities on every single play.  Many of those are going to be conditional responsibilities that vary depending on what the other team sets up in or does when the ball is hiked.  There's nothing in fodbol that compares.

*change of subject*

I'm watching Man City and Sheffield highlights, ball hits the ref and Man City scores off the carom.  Announcers are going off.  What's the rule in that situation?

[Liep]

Didn't see the game but usually I think it's a ref ball if his influence causes the other team to win possession (original team regains possession), otherwise play continues.

[Josquius]

Infinitely? Let's not exagerate.

No exaggeration.  All 11 players are going to have precisely defined responsibilities on every single play.  Many of those are going to be conditional responsibilities that vary depending on what the other team sets up in or does when the ball is hiked.  There's nothing in fodbol that compares.

You underestimate football.
Especially on set pieces they are drilled rigorously, everyone has a role to play (albeit an arguably considerably smaller one for the attacking goalkeeper)

[Liep]

He's probably right if football was just what Tyr suggested, repeated set pieces. But it isn't, so apples and oranges.

[The Larch]

It's apples and oranges. American football is indeed an endless number of set pieces with no free-flowing game whatsoever. Its tactical demands on players are naturally going to be different than in football. Just the fact that defensive and ofensive players are different already tells a lot about the kind of game it is.

[alfred russel]

It's apples and oranges. American football is indeed an endless number of set pieces with no free-flowing game whatsoever. Its tactical demands on players are naturally going to be different than in football. Just the fact that defensive and ofensive players are different already tells a lot about the kind of game it is.

Also, substitution adds a significant layer of complexity. American football has hyperspecialized roles: some players are twice the size of others, and the size and speed of the same team may change dramatically on a play by play basis.

[Admiral Yi]

You underestimate football.
Especially on set pieces they are drilled rigorously, everyone has a role to play (albeit an arguably considerably smaller one for the attacking goalkeeper)

For set pieces that involve a fairly good angle on the goal, the role of everyone not taking the kick is to hope he kicks it in.  For corner kicks the role of everyone not taking the corner is to hope the ball comes down near your head.  I have seen a number of times where the team with the ball runs a sort of pick play, one player circles around one of his teammates and the guy covering him in hopes to find an open space.  Then you have another guy waiting for or faking the short corner.

What am I missing?

[Josquius]

You underestimate football.
Especially on set pieces they are drilled rigorously, everyone has a role to play (albeit an arguably considerably smaller one for the attacking goalkeeper)

For set pieces that involve a fairly good angle on the goal, the role of everyone not taking the kick is to hope he kicks it in.  For corner kicks the role of everyone not taking the corner is to hope the ball comes down near your head.  I have seen a number of times where the team with the ball runs a sort of pick play, one player circles around one of his teammates and the guy covering him in hopes to find an open space.  Then you have another guy waiting for or faking the short corner.

What am I missing?

A lot.
Even on a most basic level of kids football, players have set jobs when attacking or defending a corner.
For the attackers they know where the corner taker will aim to send the ball and how they should behave to meet that.
Before a professional game managers will study how their opposition approaches set pieces and drill the appropriate defence.
For free kicks various routines will be worked out on the training field to try and work it in.
Even players who are not planned to touch the ball aim to run in a certain way to draw defenders out of position or obscure the keepers line of sight or all that sort of thing.
There's often a lot of bluff and counter bluff going on. You have a very good tall forward so you know the opposition will put their biggest defenders on him so they aren't doing their job and watching other players... But they know you know that so maybe putting the ball to this forward is the smart move afterall.

[Sheilbh]

Also I remember listening to a podcast and one of the guys is super into tactics and said it started by paying a lot of attention to set pieces because it starts from a dead ball it's easier to notice than in a game.

[Sheilbh]

I always think chat about mentality tends to be because people have run out of other things to say.

But fuck me if Everton don't have huge, insane, catastrophic levels of psychological issues that need sorting

[Josquius]

I have been thinking about that sort of thing a lot lately.
A lot don't realise just how small the difference in quality between players in the lower leagues and Premier league is. I really think a lot of it comes down to mentality.
The big area it stands out to me is how Sunderland went from a solid mid table team with allardyce, then with moyes and only one player gone, bottom of the table and ready to drop two leagues.

[Valmy]

It's apples and oranges. American football is indeed an endless number of set pieces with no free-flowing game whatsoever. Its tactical demands on players are naturally going to be different than in football. Just the fact that defensive and ofensive players are different already tells a lot about the kind of game it is.

Yeah they are vastly different sorts of games. I actually prefer those games with lots of pauses than the free-flowing ones. But generally I love all sports.

[Josephus]

I have been thinking about that sort of thing a lot lately.
A lot don't realise just how small the difference in quality between players in the lower leagues and Premier league is. I really think a lot of it comes down to mentality.
The big area it stands out to me is how Sunderland went from a solid mid table team with allardyce, then with moyes and only one player gone, bottom of the table and ready to drop two leagues.

I don't know. While there are exceptions (Wolves this year), most teams that get promoted from the Championship to the Premier have a hard time staying up. There is a fair bit of difference between the premier league and the lower teams. Money plays a huge role in this.