News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

Football (Soccer) Thread

Started by Liep, March 11, 2009, 02:57:29 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Josephus

Quote from: The Larch on January 17, 2023, 03:21:57 PMIt's not like this is a new phenomenon. "Euro-style football names" are for the most part (not all) "English-style football names". We just aped them first. Give them years and they will start to feel less tacky.

Interestingly about Milan, too, is that unlike Napoli, Torino, Roma, etc. they are Milan not Milano. This is because they were actually founded by an Englishman.

But that's because many of those clubs were actually founded by English people. In fact many of the English-er names have not survived, as the clubs changed their names over time. For instance, AC Milan was founded as "Milan Foot-Ball and Cricket club".
[/quote]
Civis Romanus Sum

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: Josephus on January 17, 2023, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: The Larch on January 17, 2023, 03:21:57 PMIt's not like this is a new phenomenon. "Euro-style football names" are for the most part (not all) "English-style football names". We just aped them first. Give them years and they will start to feel less tacky.

Interestingly about Milan, too, is that unlike Napoli, Torino, Roma, etc. they are Milan not Milano. This is because they were actually founded by an Englishman.

But that's because many of those clubs were actually founded by English people. In fact many of the English-er names have not survived, as the clubs changed their names over time. For instance, AC Milan was founded as "Milan Foot-Ball and Cricket club".

Inter Milan(o) was founded as Football Club Internazionale, following the split with Milan Foot-Ball and Cricket club, to allow for international players.

celedhring

#12077
Quote from: The Larch on January 17, 2023, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 17, 2023, 02:42:47 PMIt's not like this is a new phenomenon. "Euro-style football names" are for the most part (not all) "English-style football names". We just aped them first. Give them years and they will start to feel less tacky.

But that's because many of those clubs were actually founded by English people. In fact many of the English-er names have not survived, as the clubs changed their names over time. For instance, AC Milan was founded as "Milan Foot-Ball and Cricket club".

Yes, and Fútbol Club Barcelona was born as Foot-Ball Club Barcelona, most of the time it's just adjusting the name to the local language, while retaining the English origin of the word.

I mean, I prefer the American-sounding names but what I mean is that these kind of naming loans are hardly a new thing. Exhibit #2: the Spanish gridiron footie league is made up of teams all bearing American-style names (some in local language, some in English).

Duque de Bragança

Pretty much all F.Cs, e.g Porto, from what I gather.

The Larch

A curious case is rugby, where in some places you have a mixture of traditional names with more modern ones created by rebranding when the sport became professional.

For instance, in the English Premiership, where all clubs have XIXth century roots, some of them as far back as the 1860s, you have some very traditional names (Harlequins Football Club, London Irish Rugby Football Club, Bath Rugby Club, Saracens Rugby Club...) and some rebrandings that go halfway between modern and traditional (Sale Sharks Rugby Union Football Club, popularly known just as Sale Sharks), some rebrandings that don't touch the official name (Exeter Rugby Club, popularly known as Exeter Chiefs; Bristol Rugby Club, popularly known as Bristol Bears) and others that went all the way (Newcastle Falcons).

In France, by contrast, all teams have only traditional names, AFAIK.

Sheilbh

Quote from: The Larch on January 17, 2023, 05:30:56 PMA curious case is rugby, where in some places you have a mixture of traditional names with more modern ones created by rebranding when the sport became professional.

For instance, in the English Premiership, where all clubs have XIXth century roots, some of them as far back as the 1860s, you have some very traditional names (Harlequins Football Club, London Irish Rugby Football Club, Bath Rugby Club, Saracens Rugby Club...) and some rebrandings that go halfway between modern and traditional (Sale Sharks Rugby Union Football Club, popularly known just as Sale Sharks), some rebrandings that don't touch the official name (Exeter Rugby Club, popularly known as Exeter Chiefs; Bristol Rugby Club, popularly known as Bristol Bears) and others that went all the way (Newcastle Falcons).

In France, by contrast, all teams have only traditional names, AFAIK.
There's a big division with League v Union. Rugby Union has those more traditional names (including in France).

But when there was a Super League an formed in Rugby League the clubs generally adopted odd NFL-ish names: Castleford Tigers (I can't spake), the Catalan Dragons (in Perpignan), Leeds Rhinos. Just did a quick check and it also look slike it's a thing in Australian Rugby League - the Manly Warringah Sea Eagles, Brisbane Broncos etc.

When the Indian Premier League emerged, despite the name, it's very based on American style franchises (and a few Indian-American billionaires are now launching a cricket league in the US) and has those sorts of names too: Kolkata Knight Riders, Rajasthan Royals etc.

But it feels like a split between leagues/sports that look to the US for inspiration (franchises, closed leagues etc) v the old European model which has the pyramid and normally clubs from historic sporting associations. What feels weird is when someone tries to do it in the wrong tradition like Hull City Tigers or DC United.

QuoteBut that's because many of those clubs were actually founded by English people. In fact many of the English-er names have not survived, as the clubs changed their names over time. For instance, AC Milan was founded as "Milan Foot-Ball and Cricket club".
Lots of clubs in Latin America too - River Plate, Newell's Old Boys, Everton de Vina del Mar. If not founded by Brits then often inspired by the big club tours of Latin America that English clubs did in the early 20th century.

So I believe it's not clear if Everton de Vin del Mar was founded by British migrants in Valparaiso or if the name was just inspired by Everton's tour, then in Argentina, in 1909. Similarly Corinthians was a club founded by Brazilians just after Corinthian FC did a long stay in Brazil.
Let's bomb Russia!

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Sheilbh on January 17, 2023, 07:42:56 PMI can't spake

Que?

I'm fine with MSL names like FC but like Beeb and others I think United and Real are stupid and insulting.

Salt Lake has a double whammy because they have the Jazz in the NBA.  SLC has to be the least jazziest city in the US.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2023, 07:48:29 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 17, 2023, 07:42:56 PMI can't spake
Que?
Famous bit of commentary from a Castleford game (recently referenced in some darts commentary :lol:):
Let's bomb Russia!

Barrister

Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2023, 07:48:29 PMSalt Lake has a double whammy because they have the Jazz in the NBA.  SLC has to be the least jazziest city in the US.

NBA is odd in that teams seem to keep their names after moving.  Utah Jazz was the New Orleans Jazz.

Not many lakes near LA, nor many grizzlies near Memphis.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

FunkMonk

Any cases of European football clubs upping sticks and moving to another town like American sports teams often do?
Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

Grey Fox

Milton Keynes Dons FC moved from south London where they were known has Wimbledon FC in 2004.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

Zoupa

Arsenal are from south London. Fake north Londoners.

Syt

Quote from: celedhring on January 17, 2023, 02:42:47 PMIt's not like this is a new phenomenon. "Euro-style football names" are for the most part (not all) "English-style football names". We just aped them first. Give them years and they will start to feel less tacky.

Not every country can have beautiful club initials like German.
VfL = Verein für Leibesübungen (e.g. VfL Bochum)
VfB = Verein für Ballsport (e.g. VfB Stuttgart)
Spvgg = Spielvereinigung (basically the equivalent of United, e.g. Unterhaching)
TSV = Turnsportverein (e.g. TSV 1860 München)
FC (Fußballclub) or SC (Sportclub) are pretty common, though. :P
(Plus some German specialties, e.g. Kaiserreich names like Borussia or Arminia, or former GDR names like Dynamo (=Stasi clubs) or Carl-Zeiss)
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Syt

P.S.: The oldest Austrian football club in Austria is the First Vienna Football Club (yes, it has an English name): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Vienna_FC

Hakoah Vienna sadly disbanded: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakoah_Vienna
But there's a Maccabi Wien these days.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

celedhring

Quote from: Syt on January 18, 2023, 02:47:26 AM
Quote from: celedhring on January 17, 2023, 02:42:47 PMIt's not like this is a new phenomenon. "Euro-style football names" are for the most part (not all) "English-style football names". We just aped them first. Give them years and they will start to feel less tacky.

Not every country can have beautiful club initials like German.
VfL = Verein für Leibesübungen (e.g. VfL Bochum)
VfB = Verein für Ballsport (e.g. VfB Stuttgart)
Spvgg = Spielvereinigung (basically the equivalent of United, e.g. Unterhaching)
TSV = Turnsportverein (e.g. TSV 1860 München)
FC (Fußballclub) or SC (Sportclub) are pretty common, though. :P
(Plus some German specialties, e.g. Kaiserreich names like Borussia or Arminia, or former GDR names like Dynamo (=Stasi clubs) or Carl-Zeiss)

Oh, I do love the quaint German football club names, the lower German leagues are always one of my favorite Football Manager saves.

Our only idiosyncratic thingie are probably the "Real" clubs. Some of the more quirky club names (like Atlético Aviación, the Air Force's team) were eventually renamed. Larchie's team (Club Celta de Vigo) is one of the few top level clubs that retains it.