Pastafarian wins right to wear strainer in driving licence photo

[Malthus]

So Not all religions are equal? How can there  be freedom of religion in that case?

The same way you can have "freedom of expression" even though all expressions aren't equal.

[Viking]

We never make conclusions about true / not true.  Everything is decided on standards such as "reasonable suspicion", "some evidence to believe", "reasonable grounds to believe", "proof on a balance of probabilities", and "proof beyond a reasonable doubt".  If pressed, no judge will ever state that can confirm anything with absolute certainty.

I was under the impression that the whole point of your profession was to make the conclusion about guilty / not guilty or liable / not liable etc. It's just that the art of lawyery is that sometimes 51% proof is sufficient to decide in some cases (idealized civil cases) and sometimes 99,999999999...% proof is sufficients in others (idealized criminal cases).

[Viking]

Wouldn't a non-religious conscientous objector simply be a coward?

Well that's sort of the question, isn't it.  A mere coward isn't supposed to be able to claim CO status.  Someone with a deeply held belief in pacifism, and who can demonstrate that belief, can.

I guess we need a "hero" like the guy in the OP to demonstrate why having "special objective rules for purely subjective conditions" is silly, so we can get on with the business of treating all COs as cowards. 

Snarky obfuscation, you are better than this malthus.

[Viking]

So Not all religions are equal? How can there  be freedom of religion in that case?

The same way you can have "freedom of expression" even though all expressions aren't equal.

No, all expressions are equal, they are just not all equally true or useful or offensive.

[crazy canuck]

Love and Happiness can be measures using FMRI, Spiritness cannot.

Yeah blatantly false.  Meditation and prayer and so forth do show up on FMRI.

Yes, and? What do the effects meditation and prayer have on the brain to do with the existence of spirits?

It has nothing to do with proving the existence of a God or spirits as you put it but it has everything to do with proving that their believe in such things has a positive effect.  You are quite right that nobody could prove their religious beliefs are true in the scientific sense.  But people who believe do not require that level of proof.  Just as most normal people believe in a lot of things that cannot be proven to that degree of precision or certainty.

Yes, belief, prayer and meditation have real effects on the brain. This, however, has no bearing on the truth of religious or spiritual claims. These "spritual" activities have precisely the same effect regardless of the religion of the practitioner and are indistinguishable from self delusion, wishful thinking and the effects of The God Helmet.

How is what you said any different from my post?  The only difference between you and BB is that you demand a higher degree of proof before you believe in something.

[Neil]

Hatred is what makes a church worthwhile.

Then why didn't the hatred for America do it for you?

Because I don't vote NDP.

Neither do Religious people.

Sure they do.

[Malthus]

Wouldn't a non-religious conscientous objector simply be a coward?

Well that's sort of the question, isn't it.  A mere coward isn't supposed to be able to claim CO status.  Someone with a deeply held belief in pacifism, and who can demonstrate that belief, can.

I guess we need a "hero" like the guy in the OP to demonstrate why having "special objective rules for purely subjective conditions" is silly, so we can get on with the business of treating all COs as cowards. 

Snarky obfuscation, you are better than this malthus.

What am I "obfusticating"?

[Malthus]

So Not all religions are equal? How can there  be freedom of religion in that case?

The same way you can have "freedom of expression" even though all expressions aren't equal.

No, all expressions are equal, they are just not all equally true or useful or offensive.

Huh? In what way are they "equal"?

[Viking]

Yes, belief, prayer and meditation have real effects on the brain. This, however, has no bearing on the truth of religious or spiritual claims. These "spritual" activities have precisely the same effect regardless of the religion of the practitioner and are indistinguishable from self delusion, wishful thinking and the effects of The God Helmet.

How is what you said any different from my post?  The only difference between you and BB is that you demand a higher degree of proof before you believe in something.

It is different in the sense that all spiritual experiences can better be explained by materialistic causes. Every effect claimed by spirits, ghosts, gods and angels can be explained by materialistic explanations.

[Barrister]

We never make conclusions about true / not true.  Everything is decided on standards such as "reasonable suspicion", "some evidence to believe", "reasonable grounds to believe", "proof on a balance of probabilities", and "proof beyond a reasonable doubt".  If pressed, no judge will ever state that can confirm anything with absolute certainty.

I was under the impression that the whole point of your profession was to make the conclusion about guilty / not guilty or liable / not liable etc. It's just that the art of lawyery is that sometimes 51% proof is sufficient to decide in some cases (idealized civil cases) and sometimes 99,999999999...% proof is sufficients in others (idealized criminal cases).

If you want to get technical, a judge will say that 'on a balance of probabilities / proof beyond a reasonable doubt test i believe that X happened'  We make conclusions and make findings of fact - but any honest judge or lawyer that we are not doing so with absolute certainty.

[crazy canuck]

Yes, belief, prayer and meditation have real effects on the brain. This, however, has no bearing on the truth of religious or spiritual claims. These "spritual" activities have precisely the same effect regardless of the religion of the practitioner and are indistinguishable from self delusion, wishful thinking and the effects of The God Helmet.

How is what you said any different from my post?  The only difference between you and BB is that you demand a higher degree of proof before you believe in something.

It is different in the sense that all spiritual experiences can better be explained by materialistic causes. Every effect claimed by spirits, ghosts, gods and angels can be explained by materialistic explanations.

You sniped my post so in context your post doesn make much sense.  You can assert that view but really it just boils down to the fact that you require a level of proof that is impossible for a person of faith to produce. 

[Razgovory]

So has Vikings lost his mind here?

[Barrister]

So has Vikings lost his mind here?

Aren't you the expert on that topic?

[Neil]

So Not all religions are equal? How can there  be freedom of religion in that case?

Freedom =/= equality.

Ta-da!

[Viking]

You sniped my post so in context your post doesn make much sense.  You can assert that view but really it just boils down to the fact that you require a level of proof that is impossible for a person of faith to produce.

On the contrary. I will always accept the most parsimonious theory which explains all the facts, is contradicted by none, makes predictions and can be disproven.

The reason you claim I have an impossible level of proof is because I require some and you have none.