California lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history

[Malthus]

I gotta concede that saving Marilyn from having to sleep with Nixon is pretty heroic. 

True heroism will be if you respond to grumbler's post point by point, and then dedicate to outlast him in this thread. 

Alas, I am no Sir Fredrick Banting.  I can neither do an inspirational feat such as the discovery of insulin, nor outlast Grumbler's attempt to recover from making a fool of himself. 

[Razgovory]

Being immaculately conceived, unjustly executed, and still getting the last word.


EDIT:  Spell checker seemed to have change a word to something I didn't really want to write.  I hope nobody caught it.

[grumbler]

Who do you consider heroic, Grumbler?

I think that the most heroic people are those who could have hated and maybe even should have hated, but didn't, and resisted the temptation over some period of time.  MLK, Gandhi, Mandela, and their ilk.

Probably next on my list would be those who deliberately sacrificed their lives so that others might live.   People like Liviu Librescu and Jocelyne Couture-Nowak (a Canadian, btw).  This happens frequently in wartime, by policemen, and by firemen, but in a way it is even more heroic when done by people who haven't had to consider the possibility until the moment came.

And, of course, people who risk life and/or health to aid others are heroic, though not perhaps so heroic as those who act knowing the price they will pay.  Arland Williams five times passed on the rescue line to his fellow survivors in the Air Florida Flight 90 disaster.  By the time they had all been rescued, he had succumbed.

I consider people like that heroic.

Who do you consider heroic?

[DGuller]

I think people who worked in WTC buildings were heroic.  Not all of them, just the ones that didn't manage to make it down in time.

[grumbler]

...nor outlast Grumbler's attempt to recover from making a fool of himself. 

Conceding so early?  Pity, but there you have it.

[Malthus]

Who do you consider heroic, Grumbler?

I think that the most heroic people are those who could have hated and maybe even should have hated, but didn't, and resisted the temptation over some period of time.  MLK, Gandhi, Mandela, and their ilk.

Probably next on my list would be those who deliberately sacrificed their lives so that others might live.   People like Liviu Librescu and Jocelyne Couture-Nowak (a Canadian, btw).  This happens frequently in wartime, by policemen, and by firemen, but in a way it is even more heroic when done by people who haven't had to consider the possibility until the moment came.

And, of course, people who risk life and/or health to aid others are heroic, though not perhaps so heroic as those who act knowing the price they will pay.  Arland Williams five times passed on the rescue line to his fellow survivors in the Air Florida Flight 90 disaster.  By the time they had all been rescued, he had succumbed.

I consider people like that heroic.

Who do you consider heroic?

I see. To be heroic, you have to either not be a hater, or die in action. No room for scientific heroes.

That's fair enough, if oddly unbalanced. I'd say Darwin was a "hero" of mine, even though he'd never risked his life (any more than exploratory sea travel, anyway) or for that matter passed on hating people.

Thing is, Banting was *both*. He'd been decorated for heroism under fire *and* was a scientific hero. How on earth could any thinking person rate him as "not very inspirational"?

[The Brain]

I think people who worked in WTC buildings were heroic.  Not all of them, just the ones that didn't manage to make it down in time.

How many worked in the WTC? Half of them?

[MadImmortalMan]

I think people who worked in WTC buildings were heroic.  Not all of them, just the ones that didn't manage to make it down in time.

So...the ones who failed. The successful ones who lived--they aren't heroes. Where's the virtue in being a victim?

[grumbler]

I see. To be heroic, you have to either not be a hater, or die in action. No room for scientific heroes.

That's fair enough, if oddly unbalanced. I'd say Darwin was a "hero" of mine, even though he'd never risked his life (any more than exploratory sea travel, anyway) or for that matter passed on hating people.

Thing is, Banting was *both*. He'd been decorated for heroism under fire *and* was a scientific hero. How on earth could any thinking person rate him as "not very inspirational"?

I see.  So, (to play the Malthus game of pretending that a list is ipso facto exclusive), to be heroic one has to be either Banting, or Darwin? 

And (to play the Malthus game, again, now turning this into a contest of not ideas, but personalities), what kind of person cannot simply defend his own ideas, accept that other people have other opinions, and and eschew making this issue about "any thinking person?"

Banting, like hundreds of thousands of people in wars throughout time, was wounded and carried on.  Like hundreds of thousands of scientists, he discovered things.  His scientific skills allowed him to solve a problem that had flummoxed others, and he is rightly remembered as one of the bright lights of Canadian science.  But, in the end, he just did his job (and did it well).  I don't find that very inspirational.

[Razgovory]

Who do you consider heroic, Grumbler?

I think that the most heroic people are those who could have hated and maybe even should have hated, but didn't, and resisted the temptation over some period of time.  MLK, Gandhi, Mandela, and their ilk.

Probably next on my list would be those who deliberately sacrificed their lives so that others might live.   People like Liviu Librescu and Jocelyne Couture-Nowak (a Canadian, btw).  This happens frequently in wartime, by policemen, and by firemen, but in a way it is even more heroic when done by people who haven't had to consider the possibility until the moment came.

And, of course, people who risk life and/or health to aid others are heroic, though not perhaps so heroic as those who act knowing the price they will pay.  Arland Williams five times passed on the rescue line to his fellow survivors in the Air Florida Flight 90 disaster.  By the time they had all been rescued, he had succumbed.

I consider people like that heroic.

Who do you consider heroic?

The Branches of Ares.

[Malthus]

I see.  So, (to play the Malthus game of pretending that a list is ipso facto exclusive), to be heroic one has to be either Banting, or Darwin? 

Wait, isn't that the Grumbler game - played in your very first post, where you mocked my choice as if it was the best Canadian anyone could mention? I rather think so.

I said:

As for Canadians actually born as such, that sort of depends on your interests. Certainly some who achieved the most "inspirational exploits" were a pair in my father's old department at U of T - Fredrick Banting who, along with his buddy Best, who discovered the use of Insulin.

You said:

The realization that these two are the most "inspirational" Canadians must leave you sad.

Emphasis added.

Who is "pretending that a list is ipso facto exclusive" here? Why, you.

And (to play the Malthus game, again, now turning this into a contest of not ideas, but personalities), what kind of person cannot simply defend his own ideas, accept that other people have other opinions, and and eschew making this issue about "any thinking person?"

In light of the above, this is fucking hilarious, even for you. Who the hell started this off by attacking my personal opinion?

Banting, like hundreds of thousands of people in wars throughout time, was wounded and carried on.  Like hundreds of thousands of scientists, he discovered things.  His scientific skills allowed him to solve a problem that had flummoxed others, and he is rightly remembered as one of the bright lights of Canadian science.  But, in the end, he just did his job (and did it well).  I don't find that very inspirational.

That's your opinion; I do not share it, and neither did those who awarded him his award for heroism and his Nobel prize - last I checked, they did not hand out "hundreds of thousands" of Nobel prizes.

I'm afraid my opinion has rather more to back it up than yours.

[Valmy]

Damn, sorry Malthus I was just making a cheap joke.  I had no idea what powers I was unleashing.

[crazy canuck]

Damn, sorry Malthus I was just making a cheap joke.  I had no idea what powers I was unleashing.

The path to the dark side can be started with one mis-step.

[derspiess]

Who do you consider heroic, Grumbler?

I think that the most heroic people are those who could have hated and maybe even should have hated, but didn't, and resisted the temptation over some period of time.  MLK, Gandhi, Mandela, and their ilk.

Probably next on my list would be those who deliberately sacrificed their lives so that others might live.   People like Liviu Librescu and Jocelyne Couture-Nowak (a Canadian, btw).  This happens frequently in wartime, by policemen, and by firemen, but in a way it is even more heroic when done by people who haven't had to consider the possibility until the moment came.

And, of course, people who risk life and/or health to aid others are heroic, though not perhaps so heroic as those who act knowing the price they will pay.  Arland Williams five times passed on the rescue line to his fellow survivors in the Air Florida Flight 90 disaster.  By the time they had all been rescued, he had succumbed.

I consider people like that heroic.

Who do you consider heroic?

Wow, Jesus Christ must be at the top of your list then

[Agelastus]

I really have no idea why, aside from delibrate choice and the unfortunate capture of the teaching curriculum by the 60s generation, Canadian history is viewed as deadly dull by most Canadians.

Yeah I mean who can forget the inspirational exploits of such great Canadians as...um...erm...

Billy Bishop? Or is he an embarassment now?