California lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history

[The Brain]

The idea that there were no gay people before the 19th century is hilarious.

[Ideologue]

The idea that there were no gay people before the 19th century is hilarious.

There were plenty of guys having sex guys, if that's what you mean.  As I understand it, it was more of a fucking/getting fucked dynamic.

[Neil]

although I can't think offhand of a gay who made a historically significant contribution to society

Alan Turing.

Aside from being a martyr for your cause, he wasn't really a big deal.

[The Brain]

The idea that there were no gay people before the 19th century is hilarious.

There were plenty of guys having sex guys, if that's what you mean.  As I understand it, it was more of a fucking/getting fucked dynamic.

Why do you believe this?

[Ideologue]

The idea that there were no gay people before the 19th century is hilarious.

There were plenty of guys having sex guys, if that's what you mean.  As I understand it, it was more of a fucking/getting fucked dynamic.

Why do you believe this?

I actually have no idea, now that you ask.   I think I read it in a book on Greece somewhere, but I guess I can't source it.  Is it not the case?

[Valmy]

We already have minority and woman stuff so I guess this is just logical.  Of course I would rather kids be taught, you know, the basic facts of what happened before we tough on specific themes like this.  My experience is that generally the curriculum spends alot of time telling us the themes (freedom good!  Capitalism good!  Minorities are nice to!  and in Texas: Christianity is why American exists!) without actually teaching the history.

I think (hope?) this is more according to the lines of having a lesson or two on the gay movement (like Stonewall etc.) which is also history, as much as Brown vs. Board of Education is. And telling kids so-and-so was gay, where it was relevant (for example Turing's sexuality was important, Newton's probably wasn't). I think it is more about not "white-washing" (or straight-washing) history than anything else.

I am just telling you how it works over where I live.  Mentioning Turing or Newton (much less who they had sex with...or didn't in Newton's case) in an American history class?  LOL.

And history classes famously never get past WWII so actually getting to the gay movement in context is not likely.

[The Brain]

The idea that there were no gay people before the 19th century is hilarious.

There were plenty of guys having sex guys, if that's what you mean.  As I understand it, it was more of a fucking/getting fucked dynamic.

Why do you believe this?

I actually have no idea, now that you ask.   I think I read it in a book on Greece somewhere, but I guess I can't source it.  Is it not the case?

It's a pretty outrageous claim that something this fundamental would change in such a short time so it better have some outrageous evidence, 'sall.

[crazy canuck]

although I can't think offhand of a gay who made a historically significant contribution to society

Alan Turing.

Aside from being a martyr for your cause, he wasn't really a big deal.

The Cambridge Five

[Neil]

although I can't think offhand of a gay who made a historically significant contribution to society

Alan Turing.

Aside from being a martyr for your cause, he wasn't really a big deal.

The Cambridge Five

Filthy communists, but relatively minor figures.  They're certainly not going to be in a high school history class, especially an American history class.

[Maximus]

Aside from being a martyr for your cause, he wasn't really a big deal.

I beg to differ.
His contribution to the war was significant. But it was nothing compared to his contributions to modern computation theory.
The Church-Turing thesis is a cornerstone of computer science.

[crazy canuck]

although I can't think offhand of a gay who made a historically significant contribution to society

Alan Turing.

Aside from being a martyr for your cause, he wasn't really a big deal.

The Cambridge Five

Filthy communists, but relatively minor figures.  They're certainly not going to be in a high school history class, especially an American history class.

I would like Grumblers input on that.  Seems to me that espionage was a significant aspect of the Cold War and the Cambridge Five are a very famous/infamous example.  It may be that they would not find their way into US text books if US texts focus on American content only but its hard to think about talking about cold war intrigue and not mention at least Burgess and Mclean (sp?).

[DGuller]

although I can't think offhand of a gay who made a historically significant contribution to society

Alan Turing.

Wasn't he eventually cured?

[Maximus]

In a manner of speaking.

[Zanza]

although I can't think offhand of a gay who made a historically significant contribution to society

Alan Turing.

How was he gay and not just homosexual when going with your distinction of the two? As far as I know, he didn't have any of the traits or interests that are stereotypical for gays and neither did he take part in gay culture.

[Razgovory]

although I can't think offhand of a gay who made a historically significant contribution to society

Alan Turing.

Ernst Rohm.  Alfred Redl.