Russians angry over Romanian president's justification of 1941 invasion

[Syt]

Russia fury at 1941 war backing

Russia has said it is "outraged" at remarks by Romanian President Traian Basescu supporting the 1941 attack on the Soviet Union.

Romania was an ally of Nazi Germany when more than three million troops crossed the Soviet border, starting the most devastating conflict in history.

Mr Basescu said in an interview last week that Romania's war against the Soviet Union was justified because it wanted to regain a territory - Moldova - taken by the Soviets in 1940.

He said: "I probably would have done the same."

The order to attack Soviet troops was given by the pro-fascist dictator Marshal Ion Antonescu.

Russia's Foreign Ministry said in a statement it is "outraged" at Mr Basescu's comments, which attempt to "justify the fascist aggression" and "desecrate the memory of millions of Nazi victims".

[Valmy]

The Russians really are shameless assholes.

[Habbaku]

The Russians really are shameless assholes.

Yep.  While questionable, the Romanian decision to join isn't exactly as black-and-white as the Russians would like to think.  They had a decent chance of gaining considerable territory and perhaps even regaining what was jacked by Hungary.

[Caliga]

Is the position of President in Romania an elected one?  If so, he's probably got to say stuff like that to be popular with his peeps.

[dps]

They didn't really have much choice.

They didn't trust the Soviets (correctly), but pre-war, they expected their alliance with France to protect them.  After the fall of France (really, before that--Munich and the invasion of Poland had already shown them that they couldn't count on France) they were in a position where they had to side with either the Nazis or the Soviets, and at the time, the Nazis seemed a safer choice.

[Valmy]

they were in a position where they had to side with either the Nazis or the Soviets, and at the time, the Nazis seemed a safer choice.

I think the fact the Soviets invaded their country might have made them decide the Nazis were better.

Of course the Nazis then took Transylvania from them as a price of the alliance.

As usual it sucks to be Romania.  But they probably would have stayed out of it if the Soviets had not rolled in and took over.  So the Russians bitching is pretty fucking pathetic.

[Habbaku]

Of course the Nazis then took Transylvania from them as a price of the alliance.

As usual it sucks to be Romania.

The Nazis did, however, dangle the carrot of future territorial gains at the expense of the Soviet Union and at least made noises about reversing the Diktat as well.

[derspiess]

I think it's time for a small war in that region.  Transnistria would be a nice setting, since it would force the media to have to learn to spell and pronounce "Transnistria". 

Yeah, I know there was a tiny war fought there in 1992, but nobody noticed.

[Valmy]

The Nazis did, however, dangle the carrot of future territorial gains at the expense of the Soviet Union and at least made noises about reversing the Diktat as well.

I think the actions of the Romanians during the war was that they were obsessed with restoring their pre-WWII borders.  It was the Diktat that kept the Romanians fighting hard in the USSR no doubt but they were not that interested in a bunch of Ukrainian territories.

[DGuller]

I think it's time for a small war in that region.  Transnistria would be a nice setting, since it would force the media to have to learn to spell and pronounce "Transnistria". 

Yeah, I know there was a tiny war fought there in 1992, but nobody noticed.

Some people definitely noticed.  As usual, Russia supported the separatists to fuck with the newly independent republics.  Unfortunately for them, unlike in Abkhazia, no genocide broke out, so they didn't get an opportunity to support it.

[Ideologue]

I dunno, I'm with the Russians on this.  It's not like the Russians didn't have reasons to take the Baltics, Poland, and Moldavia, and while they were certainly total assholes, and probably  would have done everything they did in less ambiguous circumstances anyway if they felt they could've gotten away with it, I can definitely see the impulse to push into Eastern Europe and keep the Nazis as far away from the USSR proper as possible.

[Valmy]

I dunno, I'm with the Russians on this.  It's not like the Russians didn't have reasons to take the Baltics, Poland, and Moldavia, and while they were certainly total assholes, and probably  would have done everything they did in less ambiguous circumstances anyway if they felt they could've gotten away with it, I can definitely see the impulse to push into Eastern Europe and keep the Nazis as far away from the USSR proper as possible.

So their big solution was to attack all their neighbors and destroy every opponent the Germans had in Eastern Europe eh?  Well the results sure justify the idiocy of their plan.

[grumbler]

I dunno, I'm with the Russians on this.  It's not like the Russians didn't have reasons to take the Baltics, Poland, and Moldavia, and while they were certainly total assholes, and probably  would have done everything they did in less ambiguous circumstances anyway if they felt they could've gotten away with it, I can definitely see the impulse to push into Eastern Europe and keep the Nazis as far away from the USSR proper as possible.

The Soviets were stupid with Bessarabia and northern Bukovina, though (maybe the Russians weren't, but the Soviets definitely were).  Rumania was in a state of civil war, and the USSR pushed its own enemies into power with its foolish territorial grab.  It moved the axis back 100 miles and forward 400 miles.  The Soviets weren't just total assholes, they were moronic total assholes.

[Ideologue]

I dunno, I'm with the Russians on this.  It's not like the Russians didn't have reasons to take the Baltics, Poland, and Moldavia, and while they were certainly total assholes, and probably  would have done everything they did in less ambiguous circumstances anyway if they felt they could've gotten away with it, I can definitely see the impulse to push into Eastern Europe and keep the Nazis as far away from the USSR proper as possible.

So their big solution was to attack all their neighbors and destroy every opponent the Germans had in Eastern Europe eh?  Well the results sure justify the idiocy of their plan.

What opponents?  Poland?  Blame that one on the Poles, who refused any defensive pact with the Soviets that would allow Soviet forces to move into Poland and actually, you know, fight Nazis.  (See also, Baltic states.)  Not that I don't understand Poland's position, and maybe I'd have been a dick like Jozef Beck too.  (Except for the part about him taking German bribes.  I looked him up just now basically to recall his name--but that's new.  That wasn't information available when I was doing my thesis on the M-R Pact back in 2006.)

The Soviets were stupid with Bessarabia and northern Bukovina, though (maybe the Russians weren't, but the Soviets definitely were).  Rumania was in a state of civil war, and the USSR pushed its own enemies into power with its foolish territorial grab.  It moved the axis back 100 miles and forward 400 miles.  The Soviets weren't just total assholes, they were moronic total assholes.

I'm a lot less knowledgeable about the Romanian invasion than events further north.  Was it more possible to have a working alliance with the Romanians than with the Poles or Balts?  Or even keep them neutral?

[Razgovory]

Still, this is probably not the most diplomatic thing for the Romanian President to say.  Part of the art of Diplomacy is to avoid saying the offensively obvious truth.  It's true the Romania was a tough position in the the 1940's and if it didn't invade the Soviet Union it probably would have been invaded by the Russians anyway.