Dutch Muslims & Jews united together

[The Brain]

Jewrabs are hilarious. They are like children. Evil, stupid children.

[Martinus]

Do you oppose testing on animals as well?  I imagine shoving electrodes up a monkey's but is far more painful for the animal then having its throat slit.

You are familiar with the cost-benefit analysis are you? When we are talking about research that can save human life these are sacrifices we are willing to make. On the other hand, testing cosmetics and beauty products on animals, when it causes pain to the animal, is banned in most of Europe.

The religious mania of savages ranks rather low on the hierarchy reasons for which we should allow people to torture animals.

Eating seems rather import and would rank fairly high on benefit scale.  But you made your point.  Torturing animals is okay in cases that you like, but wrong for people you don't like.

What part of this are you too dumb to understand? The halal/kosher method of slaughter is not OBJECTIVELY necessarily to prepare an animal to eat it. It is just a part of a retarded, bronze age ideology.

If some cretinous religion came to Europe and insisted they have to sacrifice an infant before every meal, that would still not mean that by preventing them from killing babies we would prevent them from eating.

Why can't Jews and Muslims change their bronze age customs when Christians have done so over the last millennia? I repeat - if you can't behave civilly, then your place is not among the civilized people.

[Viking]

Sure what could be more humane than sticking a cow's head into a vice and then administering electric shocks?  Or firing a bolt gun into its head?  Sometimes repeatedly if unskilled doofus messes up, as does happen.  Sometimes unsuccessfully resulting in slow exsanguination while hanging upside down.

Yes. The methods of slaughtering used today are the most humane possible methods. Kosher/Halal is not the most humane possible method. Surely you are not going to argue an incompetent knocker vs the rabbi with ninja-skills? The experts have determined the most effective, safe and humane method. That method should be used. For every failed modern slaughter I refer you to a failed halal/kosher slaughter, and a whole bunch of tortures resulting from expertly done kosher/halal butcherings.

[Razgovory]

Besides, Europeans did not go to all that trouble to discover a distant (and relatively sparsely populated) land, cause all religious crazies to go there, transport a lot of blacks there, and scare enough Jews to move there, now to have all these people crawl back. 

They didn't crawl.  They marched back.  Over the bodies of dead Euros.  Which is why you live under our guns, and Europe is a second rate power.

Yet, we still get to tell the savages to get the fuck out.

Do you now?  Doesn't seem that way.  And I should remind you that the reason Europe got marched over and became a second rate power is because you guys were doing shit like this.  Some people never learn.

[Viking]

so, you are trying to argue that being tortured to death is equivalent to a (near) painless death?

No.
I am making no such argument.

The I suggest you stop posting text that makes it look like you do.

[Razgovory]

I repeat - if you can't behave civilly, then your place is not among the civilized people.

This is good advice.  You should probably follow it.

[Slargos]

I don't see why we should accommodate religious crazies and savages believing in retarded customs. As I said, GET THE FUCK OUT to your Middle East mud huts if you can't behave like a civilized person here.

You're a terrible human being.

Are you any better when making judgement calls like this?

[Martinus]

I don't see why we should accommodate religious crazies and savages believing in retarded customs. As I said, GET THE FUCK OUT to your Middle East mud huts if you can't behave like a civilized person here.

You're a terrible human being.

Yeah, sorry for siding with defenseless animals over sadistic savages with knives. That indeed makes me horrible. I hope all the blood of dying animals keeps your warm inside, motherfucker.

[The Brain]

It's like they have NO will of their own. If their religion told them to fucking fly a plane into a building would they do it?

[Razgovory]

Really, bleeding out is not very painful.  There's a reason why slitting your wrists is a fairly common method of suicide.

[Viking]

[Zoupa]

There are more "humane" ways of slaughtering animals for consumption. Given the general mood and history of the Netherlands in the last 20 years though, I strongly suspect that this move has little to do with animal suffering and a lot to do with posturing to stick it to the brownies.

[The Minsky Moment]

Yes. The methods of slaughtering used today are the most humane possible methods. Kosher/Halal is not the most humane possible method. Surely you are not going to argue an incompetent knocker vs the rabbi with ninja-skills? The experts have determined the most effective, safe and humane method.

Which experts are that? 

Captive bolt and electric stunning will induce instantaneous insensibility when they are properly applied. However, improper application can result in significant stress. All stunning methods trigger a massive secretion of epinephrine (Van der Wal 1978; Warrington 1974). This outpouring of epinephrine is greater than the secretion which would be triggered by an environmental stressor or a restraint method. Since the animal is expected to be unconscious, it does not feel the stress. One can definitely conclude that improperly applied stunning methods would be much more stressful than kosher slaughter with the long straight razor sharp knife. Kilgour (1978), one of the pioneers in animal welfare research, came to a similar conclusion on stunning and slaughter .
. . .
When the cut is done correctly, behavioural reactions to the cut are much less than reactions to air hissing, metal clanging noises, inversion or excessive pressure applied to the body. Discomfort during a properly done shechitah cut is probably minimal because cattle will stand still and do not resist a comfortable head restraint device.

From: http://www.grandin.com/ritual/kosher.slaugh.html

[Viking]

Really, bleeding out is not very painful.  There's a reason why slitting your wrists is a fairly common method of suicide.

Again, bleeding out is still more painful than blowing your brains out.

[Zoupa]

Yes. The methods of slaughtering used today are the most humane possible methods. Kosher/Halal is not the most humane possible method. Surely you are not going to argue an incompetent knocker vs the rabbi with ninja-skills? The experts have determined the most effective, safe and humane method.

Which experts are that? 

Captive bolt and electric stunning will induce instantaneous insensibility when they are properly applied. However, improper application can result in significant stress. All stunning methods trigger a massive secretion of epinephrine (Van der Wal 1978; Warrington 1974). This outpouring of epinephrine is greater than the secretion which would be triggered by an environmental stressor or a restraint method. Since the animal is expected to be unconscious, it does not feel the stress. One can definitely conclude that improperly applied stunning methods would be much more stressful than kosher slaughter with the long straight razor sharp knife. Kilgour (1978), one of the pioneers in animal welfare research, came to a similar conclusion on stunning and slaughter .
. . .
When the cut is done correctly, behavioural reactions to the cut are much less than reactions to air hissing, metal clanging noises, inversion or excessive pressure applied to the body. Discomfort during a properly done shechitah cut is probably minimal because cattle will stand still and do not resist a comfortable head restraint device.

From: http://www.grandin.com/ritual/kosher.slaugh.html

Do you have statistics on the number of improper application though?