Republican Presidential Candidate Debate on CNN

[DGuller]

Since this is thread about insane Republicans, this might as well go here.  Romney, while talking to a bunch of unemployed people, joked that he is unemployed as well.   Good timing.

[Razgovory]

Since this is thread about insane Republicans, this might as well go here.  Romney, while talking to a bunch of unemployed people, joked that he is unemployed as well.   Good timing.

Wasn't Romney a hatchet-man?  I seem to recall that he was in the business of making people unemployed.

[MadImmortalMan]

It is merely the minimum an employer can get away with.

There's another name for that. Market value. In most places, it's actually higher than the minimum wage law says it should be. Which more or less renders the minimum wage inoperative.

[DGuller]

That doesn't make the matters better for him in the eyes of the voters, although to be honest, what he did in the business world shouldn't be held against him. 

If all he did was lay off redundant positions, then it's a job that has to be done.  You don't reduce unemployment by preventing the firing of unneeded workers, if anything you increase it in the long run.

[DGuller]

It is merely the minimum an employer can get away with.

There's another name for that. Market value. In most places, it's actually higher than the minimum wage law says it should be. Which more or less renders the minimum wage inoperative.

Market values are not automatically magic, although the burden of proof should be on those claiming that markets fail.  Market values work well when supply and demand curves are sufficiently elastic, and when people have the freedom to choose.  Being saddled with the need to eat and have shelter kind of removes some of the freedom to choose.

[MadImmortalMan]

That's why in shitty places like Alabama people actually do make the minimum wage.

[Caliga]

Wasn't Romney a hatchet-man?  I seem to recall that he was in the business of making people unemployed.

Not really.  Bain Capital is a private equity firm.  Getting rid of dead weight is an integral part of M&A but I doubt Romney was involved in that himself, except when it came to C-level dudes.

[Caliga]

That's why in shitty places like Alabama people actually do make the minimum wage.

We have ~46,000 employees and a large number of them in states like West Virginia, Georgia, Alabama, etc. do make federal/state mandated minimum.  OTOH our operations in Washington state and New Jersey pay their field workers significantly more.

Want to guess which state operations have larger profit margins?

[Valmy]

Want to guess which state operations have larger profit margins?

The ones where all the jobs were moved to third world countries?

[DGuller]

Want to guess which state operations have larger profit margins?

The ones where all the jobs were moved to third world countries?

Alabama was my guess as well.

[crazy canuck]

It is merely the minimum an employer can get away with.

There's another name for that. Market value. In most places, it's actually higher than the minimum wage law says it should be. Which more or less renders the minimum wage inoperative.

You cut out the part about it applying to essentially powerless employees where the usual market forces dont really apply.  I suppose market forces for the most low end jobs might come into play if the unemployment rate is such that employers cant get enough of such employees - such a situation did exist for a time in Northern Alberta during the various oil booms it has experienced.  But in times of high unemployment there is no end of such workers and so a minimum wage is required to protect them.

So you are correct that in good times a minimum wage rate may not be necessary but it is certainly necessary in bad times.

[Caliga]

The ones where all the jobs were moved to third world countries?

Unfortunately that sort of work can't be outsourced.

[Valmy]

Unfortunately that sort of work can't be outsourced.

[dps]

I am a "bad" one as well, but mainly just because I suspect it doesn't really matter. It probably has some minimal effect on unemployment at the low ends, but probably doesn't do enough harm to justify the trouble of getting rid of it.

It has a minimal effect at most because employers will look at is as just another cost of doing business and pass it along to their customers directly or indirectly.  Raising the minimum wage probably pushes inflation up more than it does unemployment.  Which of course ultimately defeats the purpose of raising it in the first place.

[Caliga]

Yeah, that's why I like the idea of having a minimum wage but don't think it makes sense to adjust it much.  Of course, raising the minimum wage has nothing to do with economic realities and everything to do with trying to buy votes when the perception is there that votes need to be bought.