Attention English speaking lawyers: "will" or "shall"?

Started by Martinus, June 14, 2011, 10:28:02 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

dps

Quote from: Malthus on June 14, 2011, 01:27:52 PM
My take is that it doesn't matter what you use (though "shall" is a bit more archaically legally-sounding) as long as your meaning is clear in context.



Yes, the two words are synonyms.  But simply because it's archaic, "shall" sounds more formal and legalistic, which is why you see it still used.

But if the guy wanting the wording changed is German, Marty really needs a German lawyer to see it the two translate to different terms in Germany legalese.

Zanza

Quote from: dps on June 14, 2011, 02:48:05 PMBut if the guy wanting the wording changed is German, Marty really needs a German lawyer to see it the two translate to different terms in Germany legalese.

From my very anecdotal knowledge, it seems that in German you would rather use the translation of "have to" to express obligations.

Or something is just stated as a fact like "The renter pays the rent to the landlord on the first workday of the month".

mongers

My gut feeling is using 'will' is definite, one will do something, whereas 'shall' seems less certain, one would say "I shall do this", but that usage leaves an element doubt as to you doing it, in a sense it implies you have the freewill to choose not to do it.

I think my opinion might be something to do with the origination and age of the two words; will seems to be older and more 'English'.  :unsure:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Jacob

Quote from: dps on June 14, 2011, 02:48:05 PMYes, the two words are synonyms.  But simply because it's archaic, "shall" sounds more formal and legalistic, which is why you see it still used.

But if the guy wanting the wording changed is German, Marty really needs a German lawyer to see it the two translate to different terms in Germany legalese.

Well in Danish, which isn't German but might be similar, the equivalent of "will" ("vil) suggests that you have the will/ intention to do something, where as the equivalent of "shall" ("skal") means there is an obligation whether you feel like doing so or not.

I suspect that German has a similar distinction and that English used to but doesn't really anymore (outside of older legal language).

DontSayBanana

Quote from: Scipio on June 14, 2011, 11:25:16 AM
I never see 'shall' used in contracts.  I never see 'will' used in statutes (unless they are referring to testamentary wills).

Ah, yeah, forgot about that.  All the "plain English" mantra we were taught went out the window in Administration of Estates.  Of course, NJ's so screwed up in its requirements for estates that it's best to just fall back on the tried-and-true legalese.
Experience bij!