World of Tanks

[Slargos]

Well. I'm having a horrible fucking day.

About 1/5 victory rate. YAY.

ASS FUCKIGN FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[Berkut]

I just got the 88L56 for my VK3001. I think I am actually going to switch back to the 75L70.

[DGuller]

Wow, the Sherman with the derp gun rocks just as much as the Panzer IV with the derp gun does.  I've had better than 1-1 kill ratio almost out of the box with it, which is unusual for me.

[Berkut]

I think the game does a good job of illustrating what was learned about the use of armor in WW2: all this "specialization" doesn't work. You are almost always just better of in a bigger, more heavily armed tank. There is no stone-paper-scissors.

[DGuller]

That ignores the strategic considerations, though, which were paramount.  In real life, T-34s, Shermans, and Panzer IVs were better because many more of them can be produced, not because they could take on any tank.  I'd rather be present with Panzers than be absent with Tigers.  There is no such strategic trade-off in the game.

[Agelastus]

I'd rather be present with Panzers than be absent with Tigers.

[annoying nitpick] The Tiger is a Panzer though. [/annoying nitpick]

So, as somebody who prefers strategy games such as EU and CIV and rarely plays online, is this game genuinely worth a look?

[DGuller]

It's free to try, and if you're a masochist, it can even be free to continue playing.  It does have an extremely addictive quality to it that I can't quite explain.

[Berkut]

That ignores the strategic considerations, though, which were paramount.  In real life, T-34s, Shermans, and Panzer IVs were better because many more of them can be produced, not because they could take on any tank.  I'd rather be present with Panzers than be absent with Tigers.  There is no such strategic trade-off in the game.

But at the time that the mediums dominated the war, they were the "main battle tank". By the end of the war, the mediums were all upgunned and armored as much as possible, with all major combatants coming out with replacement "mediums" that were heavier than early war heavy tanks, but still intending to be "medium" as far as role was concerned. The Panther was nearly 50 tons, for example. The US Pershing as well, although the US called it a "heavy" tank during the war, it was really a medium (and classified as such once the war was over).

The traditional "heavy" (meaning a tank considerably more armored than the medium and intended for some special role rather than just general purpose) tank was just as obsoleted as the lights as the war went on. It took a while, because everyone was enamored with the idea that tanks would ahve varying roles, like ships. The Americans pushed the TD concept, the Germans had the entire gamut from light to medium to heavy, the Brits their "Cruiser" vs medium tanks, etc. etc. The Soviets, IMO, were the frst to really understand that the concept of light/medium/heavy was not the future, although they were helped a lot by having stumbled on the first truly modern "main battle tank" at least in theory in the T-34 nice an early.

As time went on, the concept of the main battle tank became the de facto standard, with everyone moving towards a single design that would fulfill almost all roles on the battlefield. The fact that this did not happen in WW2 is a matter of the war ending before that evolution reached its conclusion, but it was certainly moving in that direction from '42 on.

I WoT, the "heavy" tanks are in fact the main battle tank of post WW2 philosophy. And there is no job in the game that a Tier 9 medium can do better than a Tier 9 heavy, for the most part, at least as far as I can tell.

[Berkut]

  In real life, T-34s, Shermans, and Panzer IVs were better because many more of them can be produced, not because they could take on any tank.  I'd rather be present with Panzers than be absent with Tigers. 

Actually, the Panzer IV was continued to be produced simply because the Germans could not take the time to shift production of their factories over the the Panther, which was actually no more expensive to make due to more advanced production techniques.

The Sherman was, IMO, largely a mistake (or rather it was an excellent tank when designed and first built, then the US simply stopped improving it until they were forced to do so) based on flawed ideas about the roles of various tanks. Note that almost immediately after the war the US ditched the insistence on a relatively light medium tank and became one of the primary proponents of the MBT, with considerable success. Still, the Sherman was good enough, and while I still think it was a mistake, it was a mistake once made that was likely better to stick with and get the war over with than try to fix.

The T-34 was an outstanding tank that the Soviets rode as long as they were able, upgunning and uparmoring it constantly, but they knew pretty quickly it was not the future of the Red Army's post-war tank force - it was too small to function as a post war main battle tank. It was the IS line that ended up spawning the future of Soviet tank design. Even its replacement was quickly abandoned.

[DGuller]

I can't stand that T1 heap of junk.  I swear, I'm getting like 200 XP per battle with that thing.  At that rate, I'll be dead of old age before I advance on the American heavy tank line.

[Berkut]

I created a Languish channel. I called it Languish.

[DGuller]

Wow, at least T1's utter crappiness is good for one thing, and that's racking up awards.  I fired 51 shots at Malinovka, and scored 31 hits.  Of course, I didn't actually kill anyone with those shots, despite landing 31 of them, since US heavy tanks are not equipped with a gun strong enough to kill tanks.  However, I damaged 7 tanks, and netted myself a triple award of Confederate, Master Gunner, and Sharpshooter.  Never had 3 awards from one battle.

[DGuller]

Now that I by necessity mastered the art of hanging back and firing from behind the lines, I tried the long gun on the Pz IV again.  Works well too.

[DGuller]

My trusted Pz IV has been retired with full honors, now that it researched everything worth researching (i.e. everything except Hummel).  Now on to VK3601H. 

Speaking of that tank, I really, really love the conical gun.  On paper it seems like such a weak gun, but I can reliable score plenty of damage from a distance, and a couple of kills.  This gun certainly teaches you how to be a sniper like nothing else.

[Slargos]

interesting analysis, berk, but wrong on one point which i shall later elaborate on