Global War On Drugs 'Has Failed' Say Former Leaders

[Razgovory]

Bad argument.  The research done on the Insite clinic in Vancouver where drugs are injected under medical surpervision is that significant health costs have been saved by preventing people from overdosing.  In fact if we go with the medical model health costs would be minimal since drugs quality would be normalized (no side effects caused by inconsistent drugs) and use would be carried out under medical supervision.

Rehab beds cost money. The staff used to run the facilities cost money. The facility costs money. Not sure how the savings become minimal.

I sent a parolee to rehab for marijuana use (as an alternative to incarceration). It cost Medicaid $7,500 for his two week stay.

Ahhh, so you're the problem.

[Strix]

McDonalds? What did that poor person ever do to you? 

[garbon]

Btw, in places like Chicago, Strixy, you'd be arrested for that behavior.

[Strix]

So you hate people who beg for money so they can buy food?

No, I just prefer to provide the food rather than the money for some alcohol or drugs. If they want to trade the Royale with Cheese for crack that's on them.

[Strix]

Btw, in places like Chicago, Strixy, you'd be arrested for that behavior.

Luckily I have a 'Get Out of Jail Free' card.

[garbon]

Btw, in places like Chicago, Strixy, you'd be arrested for that behavior.

Luckily I have a 'Get Out of Jail Free' card.

As a parole officer you are allowed to break laws in other jurisdictions?

[The Brain]

Btw, in places like Chicago, Strixy, you'd be arrested for that behavior.

Luckily I have a 'Get Out of Jail Free' card.

As a parole officer you are allowed to break laws in other jurisdictions?

Union card.

[garbon]

So you hate people who beg for money so they can buy food?

No, I just prefer to provide the food rather than the money for some alcohol or drugs. If they want to trade the Royale with Cheese for crack that's on them.

Understandable, although that's not how taxes really work.  One can only indirectly affect that process in a very minor way.

[DGuller]

And where did I state taxes were theft? Nice attempt at a strawman.

You implied that.  You said that being taxed $100 to help someone is the same as that someone stealing $100 from you.  It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to conclude that you regard taxation as theft, you pretty much said so in plain text yourself.  I know it sounds stupid when I repeat what you say, but that's only because the things you say are generally stupid.

The logic is simple. If I have to pay money to "help" someone else than I would prefer that help be in a certain form.

Yes, and your preferred form seems to include theft and incarceration.  It's not the simplicity of this logic that I'm having a probelm with.

I guess you'd have to say I am one of those people who would buy someone a meal from McDonald's to hand them rather than hand them $10 when they beg for money for food.

And what exactly does that analogy have to do with arguing against providing people with drug addictions with cheap drugs?

[Zoupa]

Why do you guys assume that under a medical model, presently-illegal drugs would be covered by government insurance plans?

There are plenty of medications that patients have to pay 100% for, ie are not covered.

[dps]

Legalization and taxation sounds nice in theory, and would probably work OK for pot, but the problem with most hard drugs is that the people who are addicted to them often have a hard time holding down a job, and if they don't have to steal to buy drugs are either going to become dependent on welfare or steal to afford cars, clothes, shelter, etc.

[Eddie Teach]

Well, they won't have to steal as much if their crack costs the same as aspirin.

[Barrister]

As I said before I don't have a problem with treatment programs (indeed I support them), and in particular treatment programs that such as methadone that involve prescribing less harmful drugs.

But the whole concept of "medicalizing" hard drugs?  I don't think it's the answer.

One of the fastest growing addictions in the west is addictions to prescription medication.  Oxycontin is the most well known name, but any number of prescription drugs are being abused.  And the fact these drugs are legal and being prescribed doesn't make them a whole lot less damaging.

I don't want to right a whole essay on the topic, but here are a few random thoughts:

-because something is prescribed, and legal, it is destigmatized.  Plenty of nice middle class kids would never take a hit off of a crack pipe, but they may be much more willing to take some Oxys after their friend describes how good they make you feel - and they come in a nice safe pill form.

-once something can be prescribed, it can be over-prescribed.  Drug seeking clients are a huge problem for front line physicians and pharmacists - and they all know who the easy sources for prescriptions are

-if you make such prescriptions to hard to access, then you haven't done anything to shut down the illegal sources.

-and it's easy enough to sell to others.  Again, there's a booming black market in pills.

-You start loading pharmacies with cocaine and heroin, and they're going to be robbed / stolen from a lot more.

[Martinus]

Awesome this is getting some airing in public.
Lets hope the coalition in an effort to raise money decides to legalise and tax cannabis.
Unlikely but I can hope.

Most of the negative effects they are talking about aren't from cannabis.

Do you really want to legalize and tax cocaine, meth and herion?

I'd tax herons. They are damn bastards.

[Strix]

Why do you guys assume that under a medical model, presently-illegal drugs would be covered by government insurance plans?

There are plenty of medications that patients have to pay 100% for, ie are not covered.

Probably because illegal drugs placed under a medical model would more likely than not require a prescription from a doctor e.g. methadone and suboxone. For some people this means Medicaid.