The Obama "To Make Important Middle East Speech" MEGATHREAD

[Zoupa]

Can an Amerikkkan enlighten as to why the US and Israel have such close ties? US jewish voting population? Cold War history between the two?

I don't see what the US gets out of this special relationship.

There is an unwillingness in the US to let an allied country get eaten up by it's aggressive neighbors.  I understand this is a foreign concept in Europe.

Right. 1917, 1941. It's a foreign concept all over, seems to me.

[Viking]

Can an Amerikkkan enlighten as to why the US and Israel have such close ties? US jewish voting population? Cold War history between the two?

I don't see what the US gets out of this special relationship.

The US population has an empathy for the israelis that they don't have with the palestinians. The US does not suffer from colonial guilt, is not infested with continental philosophy (post-modernism), has an ideological attachment to democracy and the US has a substantial christian zionist movement which supports israel on an irrational basis.

The idea of going to another land to create a new improved life for oneself is appealing to americans.

[Martinus]

Final annihilation is no longer as likely an option in a world with humanitarian interventions. Lybia is an example of that. Ceasefire lines are easy to agree on the grounds that they are not the final borders.

I think you are underestimating war exhaustion, even in non "final" situations. Most modern societies would give up the fight long before their final annihilation even if it meant losing some square miles of land.

It's more a case of modern societies being unwilling to conduct the final annihilation regardless of the evil of the enemy. Modern societies win wars against non-modern societies.

Yes, but what I am saying is that a modern society is willing to accept a ceasefire while knowing that it may keep borders at a status quo which is not desirable to that society simply because the society may be tired of continuing hostilities.

Argentina pretty much gave up Falklands (even if it claims it didn't) when it signed cease fire with Britain and I'm pretty such Argentineans knew what it meant - and they were nowhere near annihilation.

[Viking]

Final annihilation is no longer as likely an option in a world with humanitarian interventions. Lybia is an example of that. Ceasefire lines are easy to agree on the grounds that they are not the final borders.

I think you are underestimating war exhaustion, even in non "final" situations. Most modern societies would give up the fight long before their final annihilation even if it meant losing some square miles of land.

It's more a case of modern societies being unwilling to conduct the final annihilation regardless of the evil of the enemy. Modern societies win wars against non-modern societies.

Yes, but what I am saying is that a modern society is willing to accept a ceasefire while knowing that it may keep borders at a status quo which is not desirable to that society simply because the society may be tired of continuing hostilities.

Argentina pretty much gave up Falklands (even if it claims it didn't) when it signed cease fire with Britain and I'm pretty such Argentineans knew what it meant - and they were nowhere near annihilation.

The argument I am trying to make is that Argentina could agree to a ceasefire without conceding it's claim to the Malvinas. Had Argentina had to ceded the Malvinas as part of the ceasefire they would not have accepted the ceasefire.

Once the Argentinians had been expelled from the Malvinas the UK would be unwilling to conduct any military operations apart from a blockade and the occasional air-raid. Provided the Argentinians were willing to carry on suffering the blockade and air-raid they would not cede the Malvinas.

[CountDeMoney]

Can an Amerikkkan enlighten as to why the US and Israel have such close ties? US jewish voting population? Cold War history between the two?

I don't see what the US gets out of this special relationship.

The US population has an empathy for the israelis that they don't have with the palestinians. The US does not suffer from colonial guilt, is not infested with continental philosophy (post-modernism), has an ideological attachment to democracy and the US has a substantial christian zionist movement which supports israel on an irrational basis.

The idea of going to another land to create a new improved life for oneself is appealing to americans.

We, unlike Europeans, happen to like Jews.  They've been an integral part in the development of this nation, and they put the "Judeo" in "Judeo-Christian tradition" when it comes to the roots of our culture.  The "substantial christian zionist movement" isn't really all that substantial, though.  It's just loud.

We haven't been trying to liquidate them for thousands of years. 

Up until the mid-80s, there were more Jews in the five burroughs of New York City than there were in Israel.  How many European capitals can say that?

[Viking]

Can an Amerikkkan enlighten as to why the US and Israel have such close ties? US jewish voting population? Cold War history between the two?

I don't see what the US gets out of this special relationship.

The US population has an empathy for the israelis that they don't have with the palestinians. The US does not suffer from colonial guilt, is not infested with continental philosophy (post-modernism), has an ideological attachment to democracy and the US has a substantial christian zionist movement which supports israel on an irrational basis.

The idea of going to another land to create a new improved life for oneself is appealing to americans.

We, unlike Europeans, happen to like Jews.  They've been an integral part in the development of this nation, and they put the "Judeo" in "Judeo-Christian tradition" when it comes to the roots of our culture.  The "substantial christian zionist movement" isn't really all that substantial, though.  It's just loud.

We haven't been trying to liquidate them for thousands of years. 

Up until the mid-80s, there were more Jews in the five burroughs of New York City than there were in Israel.  How many European capitals can say that?

Up until the early 40's, Warsaw could. But do note, New York is not a capital city, So Antwerp might also apply.

[Razgovory]

Can an Amerikkkan enlighten as to why the US and Israel have such close ties? US jewish voting population? Cold War history between the two?

I don't see what the US gets out of this special relationship.

There is an unwillingness in the US to let an allied country get eaten up by it's aggressive neighbors.  I understand this is a foreign concept in Europe.

Right. 1917, 1941. It's a foreign concept all over, seems to me.

What do these dates signify here?

[Zoupa]

Can an Amerikkkan enlighten as to why the US and Israel have such close ties? US jewish voting population? Cold War history between the two?

I don't see what the US gets out of this special relationship.

The US population has an empathy for the israelis that they don't have with the palestinians. The US does not suffer from colonial guilt, is not infested with continental philosophy (post-modernism), has an ideological attachment to democracy and the US has a substantial christian zionist movement which supports israel on an irrational basis.

The idea of going to another land to create a new improved life for oneself is appealing to americans.

We, unlike Europeans, happen to like Jews.  They've been an integral part in the development of this nation, and they put the "Judeo" in "Judeo-Christian tradition" when it comes to the roots of our culture.  The "substantial christian zionist movement" isn't really all that substantial, though.  It's just loud.

We haven't been trying to liquidate them for thousands of years. 

Up until the mid-80s, there were more Jews in the five burroughs of New York City than there were in Israel.  How many European capitals can say that?

Yes yes, you like the jews and we butcher them every chance we get, I know the drill. I was looking more for historical reasons and whatnot. You seem to be saying there's an emotional attachment because of the substantial role jews have played in US history, yes?

[Ed Anger]

Can an Amerikkkan enlighten as to why the US and Israel have such close ties? US jewish voting population? Cold War history between the two?

I don't see what the US gets out of this special relationship.

There is an unwillingness in the US to let an allied country get eaten up by it's aggressive neighbors.  I understand this is a foreign concept in Europe.

Right. 1917, 1941. It's a foreign concept all over, seems to me.

What do these dates signify here?

We didn't intervene in their mudfights at first opportunity.

[Razgovory]

As far as I know, we weren't allies.  Though we did send vital supplies.

[Ed Anger]

As far as I know, we weren't allies.  Though we did send vital supplies.

Reading about France's pathetic attempts to get us to intervene in Horne's To Lose a Battle: France 1940 gives me the giggles.

BONJOUR! Could you send some of your pathetically small and underequipped army over as fast as you can? Yes, they'll get overrun with us too!

[Viking]

As far as I know, we weren't allies.  Though we did send vital supplies.

Reading about France's pathetic attempts to get us to intervene in Horne's To Lose a Battle: France 1940 gives me the giggles.

BONJOUR! Could you send some of your pathetically small and underequipped army over as fast as you can? Yes, they'll get overrun with us too!

When in doubt make sure Eisenhower, Marshall, Bradley, Patton and LeMay all end up in German POW camps in 1940....

[Zoupa]

As far as I know, we weren't allies.  Though we did send vital supplies.

Reading about France's pathetic attempts to get us to intervene in Horne's To Lose a Battle: France 1940 gives me the giggles.

BONJOUR! Could you send some of your pathetically small and underequipped army over as fast as you can? Yes, they'll get overrun with us too!

That's what good allies do. Zombie Lafayette is: disappointed 

[Viking]

As far as I know, we weren't allies.  Though we did send vital supplies.

Reading about France's pathetic attempts to get us to intervene in Horne's To Lose a Battle: France 1940 gives me the giggles.

BONJOUR! Could you send some of your pathetically small and underequipped army over as fast as you can? Yes, they'll get overrun with us too!

That's what good allies do. Zombie Lafayette is: disappointed 

Black Jack Pershing went to Lafayette's tomb...

[Ed Anger]

As far as I know, we weren't allies.  Though we did send vital supplies.

Reading about France's pathetic attempts to get us to intervene in Horne's To Lose a Battle: France 1940 gives me the giggles.

BONJOUR! Could you send some of your pathetically small and underequipped army over as fast as you can? Yes, they'll get overrun with us too!

That's what good allies do. Zombie Lafayette is: disappointed 

Y'all was lucky to get what youse got.