In Greece, austerity kindles deep discontent, breakdown in rule of law

[Slargos]

But when I mention the Greek migrant labour of the 60s and how they almost en masse mysteriously developed back conditions after working the minimal amount of time required to be fully supported by the social security system, somehow I am a racist. 

[Martinus]

I think that Europe needs to provide them with long-term debt support while they actually push through the reforms necessary, rather than simply demanding more and more austerity - I think that's starting to happen.

What's the moral principle behind the belief that a country which has been living beyond its means deserves subsidization of its lifestyle?

I thought we were talking about economy, not moral principles. Where did that come from? 

What was the moral principle behind the US government (both under Republicans and Democrats) pumping billions of dollars into failing, unprofitable entities during the last 3 years or so?

[Admiral Yi]

I thought we were talking about economy, not moral principles. Where did that come from? 

What was the moral principle behind the US government (both under Republicans and Democrats) pumping billions of dollars into failing, unprofitable entities during the last 3 years or so?

The preservation of the banking system and hence credit.  In the case of GM, Union votes.

[alfred russel]

It's not just Greece when it comes to financial incompetence; the European Court of Auditors has failed the EU's accounts every year for........well...........living memory.

The US is there too.

[derspiess]

So has anyone tried out the austerity Kindle?  I know it's cheaper than the regular Kindle, but the small amount of savings isn't worth having ads on your e-reader 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004HFS6Z0/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=6071121567&ref=pd_sl_1btn594ibc_e

[ulmont]

So has anyone tried out the austerity Kindle?  I know it's cheaper than the regular Kindle, but the small amount of savings isn't worth having ads on your e-reader 

The austerity Kindle is fine.  The ads don't show while you're reading, so it's totally ignorable.

[MadImmortalMan]

Only saves you 25 bucks though.

[derspiess]

So has anyone tried out the austerity Kindle?  I know it's cheaper than the regular Kindle, but the small amount of savings isn't worth having ads on your e-reader 

The austerity Kindle is fine.  The ads don't show while you're reading, so it's totally ignorable.

For now.  Next thing you know there'll be an annoying pop-up every time you turn a page

[MadImmortalMan]

[Martinus]

I thought we were talking about economy, not moral principles. Where did that come from? 

What was the moral principle behind the US government (both under Republicans and Democrats) pumping billions of dollars into failing, unprofitable entities during the last 3 years or so?

The preservation of the banking system and hence credit.  In the case of GM, Union votes.

That's not a moral principle. These are pragmatic reasons. There are equally strong (if not stronger) reasons behind preventing Greece from defaulting while not to throttling its growth with austerity measures. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

[Martinus]

Fucking Greeks. Apparently, the ferry and airline transport employees went on strike. Great idea, smother the only business sector that Greece can do reasonably well by pissing off thousands of foreign tourists.

[Admiral Yi]

That's not a moral principle. These are pragmatic reasons. There are equally strong (if not stronger) reasons behind preventing Greece from defaulting while not to throttling its growth with austerity measures. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Let's assume for the sake of argument that I'm not being deliberately obtuse.  What are these equally strong if not stronger reasons behind preventing Greece from defaulting while not throttling its growth?

[Martinus]

That's not a moral principle. These are pragmatic reasons. There are equally strong (if not stronger) reasons behind preventing Greece from defaulting while not to throttling its growth with austerity measures. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Let's assume for the sake of argument that I'm not being deliberately obtuse.  What are these equally strong if not stronger reasons behind preventing Greece from defaulting while not throttling its growth?

Immediately:
Collapse of Euro.
Second financial crisis.
Double-dip recession.

More hypothetically, a potential social, economical and political powder keg in the heart of Europe.

The question isn't whether Greece should be saved but whether it can. Certainly, by requiring it to further reduce public spending and national consumption, we are making sure the recovery - if at all possible - becomes even less likely.

[grumbler]

Certainly, by requiring it to further reduce public spending and national consumption, we are making sure the recovery - if at all possible - becomes even less likely.

If this is so certain, why are you doing it?  You would seem to be defeating yourself.

[alfred russel]

Immediately:
Collapse of Euro.
Second financial crisis.
Double-dip recession.

More hypothetically, a potential social, economical and political powder keg in the heart of Europe.

The question isn't whether Greece should be saved but whether it can. Certainly, by requiring it to further reduce public spending and national consumption, we are making sure the recovery - if at all possible - becomes even less likely.

Greece is a very small country that makes up a miniscule portion of the economy of the eurozone (or EU). Its debts are reasonably large and held by institutions (public and private) that matter to the eurozone, but beyond that Greece is too small to really matter. From a practical (not moral) point of view, I don't see why France or Germany needs to be particularly concerned if Greece recovers anytime soon (and it seems they are not). Western Europe is one of the most stable places politically in the world. They aren't going to be destabilized because of some anarchists in the balkans.

What they do need to be worried about is whether a bunch of countries begin to view an EU bailout package as a solution to an ugly budget situation. If Portugal and Ireland begin to see this as an acceptable alternative, things could get expensive. If Spain or Italy take that view, there may not be the money to bail them out.