AV

[Eddie Teach]

Other: Outlaw all political parties and vote for individuals. 

Seems that would just mean even more empty suits with pretty faces promising the moon.

[MadImmortalMan]

Other: Outlaw all political parties and vote for individuals. 

Seems that would just mean even more empty suits with pretty faces promising the moon.

Of course. They'd still be politicians. The only way to avoid that would be to elect our leaders by lottery like we do jury duty.

[Viking]

Other: Outlaw all political parties and vote for individuals. 

Seems that would just mean even more empty suits with pretty faces promising the moon.

?

[Sheilbh]

The UK system of AV would be slightly different from other countries, though it exists for local elections elsewhere.  My understanding is that you'll only get three preferences and you don't actually have to make a preference at all.  In elections with this system about 60% just plump for one candidate. 

Other: Outlaw all political parties and vote for individuals. 

We vote for them anyway.  Though I think AV would lead to more independents which could be good (or dreadful).

To be honest I think this Parliament so far's been pretty impressive, the government less so.

[MadImmortalMan]

So, a situation could happen where 49% vote for candidate 1, and 49% for candidate 2, and 80% pick candidate 3 as their second choice--then #3 wins even though nobody actually wanted him first.

[Sheilbh]

So, a situation could happen where 49% vote for candidate 1, and 49% for candidate 2, and 80% pick candidate 3 as their second choice--then #3 wins even though nobody actually wanted him first.

Well, no.

In your example candidate 3 is eliminated in the first count, having received least votes, their vote second preference is then redistributed between candidate 1 and 2 until one has over 50%.

[Razgovory]

Reminds me of the California recall thing where Gray Davis could have gotten the most votes but still lost. 


Anyway, don't care of this idea as it encourage idiots to vote for other idiots like the Green party or the Constitution party.

[Sheilbh]

Anyway, don't care of this idea as it encourage idiots to vote for other idiots like the Green party or the Constitution party.

That's fair in the US. 

One of the arguments for AV is that in the 50s there were two parties who between them received around 90% of the vote, in those circumstances FPTP works.  But now we have Labour, Tories and Lib Dems throughout Britain, and Plaid and the SNP in Wales and Scotland, and the Greens in certain areas so FPTP doesn't reflect voters' choices anymore and acts like we have a 2 party system when we don't.

This is like an AV election, but I think in AV the votes would be redistributed until a candidate gets over 50%, rather than just two rounds:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_mayoral_election,_2008

[Josquius]

Other: Outlaw all political parties and vote for individuals. 

Impossible.
But it is thought that AV could really help individual candidates.

[Richard Hakluyt]

The Lib-Dem part of the coalition think that they would get lots of 2nd votes, as they occupy the ground between Labour and the Tories. There may be a risk of people giving their first vote to some loons (UKIP, BNP......perhaps a fringe socialist party) and then their 2nd preference to a mainstream party..........but this may be a good thing, many people loathe the EU and multiculturism, but the main parties will do nothing about that............depends how truly democratic one wants to be 

[Warspite]

My first preference vote will be Yes to AV, and my second preference will be for No.

[Josquius]

The Lib-Dem part of the coalition think that they would get lots of 2nd votes, as they occupy the ground between Labour and the Tories. There may be a risk of people giving their first vote to some loons (UKIP, BNP......perhaps a fringe socialist party) and then their 2nd preference to a mainstream party..........but this may be a good thing, many people loathe the EU and multiculturism, but the main parties will do nothing about that............depends how truly democratic one wants to be 

One of the lies of the no campaign is saying AV would lead to the BNP getting into power...except of course the BNP oppose AV because they know it would screw them over.
The way I've heard it, and it makes sense, AV would help serious minor parties who can appeal to the general population. Due to the target of a 50% threshold though it would really screw over extremists like the BNP who most of the population absolutely hate with a passion.
Even I, conservative hater that I am, would put them as a (low) preference if the BNP were running in my constituency. Just in case.

[Sheilbh]

I can't see the BNP winning with this system.  I do think UKIP and the Greens will pick up a few seats though. 

That's one of the things I like about AV; I think it's more representative and fair than FPTP without doling out seats to the mentalists like PR.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I think you are being optimistic about the paucity of support for the BNP; though I do agree that a minor change to AV will probably not enable them to win a seat.

[Josquius]

I can't see the BNP winning with this system.  I do think UKIP and the Greens will pick up a few seats though. 

That's one of the things I like about AV; I think it's more representative and fair than FPTP without doling out seats to the mentalists like PR.

Its more destroying local representation that has me against PR.