Game of Thrones begins....

[Queequeg]

The overall bit with John was not well done either, IMO. In the books, it is clear why Qorin and John are fighting, and what Qorin is trying to accomplish. The show seemed confusing - again, my wife was all "Why is Qorin attacking him? How does he know John is a traitor? What?".

Yes.  Clearly it is better for all characters in all dramatic works to have clear, singular motivations for every single action at all times. 

[Berkut]

The overall bit with John was not well done either, IMO. In the books, it is clear why Qorin and John are fighting, and what Qorin is trying to accomplish. The show seemed confusing - again, my wife was all "Why is Qorin attacking him? How does he know John is a traitor? What?".

Yes.  Clearly it is better for all characters in all dramatic works to have clear, singular motivations for every single action at all times. 

When the action in question involves a main character sticking a sword into his friend, yeah, it probably should have some singular motivation.

[Josephus]

Yeah, I was confused by that. They seemed to go for the "you called my mother a whore" motive.

[Berkut]

Yeah, I was confused by that. They seemed to go for the "you called my mother a whore" motive.

Apparently there really doesn't need to be a motive. Jon maybe is French, and is all "Fuck the world! Life is shit. I shall kill my friend. Why? Because fuck you, that is why! Give me another cigarette"

[Josephus]

Yeah, I was confused by that. They seemed to go for the "you called my mother a whore" motive.

Apparently there really doesn't need to be a motive. Jon maybe is French, and is all "Fuck the world! Life is shit. I shall kill my friend. Why? Because fuck you, that is why! Give me another cigarette"

I never saw it that way until now. Yeah.

[Queequeg]

The overall bit with John was not well done either, IMO. In the books, it is clear why Qorin and John are fighting, and what Qorin is trying to accomplish. The show seemed confusing - again, my wife was all "Why is Qorin attacking him? How does he know John is a traitor? What?".

Yes.  Clearly it is better for all characters in all dramatic works to have clear, singular motivations for every single action at all times. 

When the action in question involves a main character sticking a sword into his friend, yeah, it probably should have some singular motivation.

I think it is pretty clearly more complicated than that.  Jon is already attracted to Ygriette.  I think there is already some temptation to turn, and having Halfhand scream obscenities about his mother was probably so effective at goading him that it, you know, actually made him really angry. 

[Berkut]

The overall bit with John was not well done either, IMO. In the books, it is clear why Qorin and John are fighting, and what Qorin is trying to accomplish. The show seemed confusing - again, my wife was all "Why is Qorin attacking him? How does he know John is a traitor? What?".

Yes.  Clearly it is better for all characters in all dramatic works to have clear, singular motivations for every single action at all times. 

When the action in question involves a main character sticking a sword into his friend, yeah, it probably should have some singular motivation.

I think it is pretty clearly more complicated than that.  Jon is already attracted to Ygriette.  I think there is already some temptation to turn, and having Halfhand scream obscenities about his mother was probably so effective at goading him that it, you know, actually made him really angry. 

Yeah, except that makes Jon into nothing more than a traitor and a murderer.

Which is NOT who Jon Snow is, unless the show is looking to take him in a radically different direction from the book.

[Solmyr]

I thought the show was pretty clear in that Jon goes along with Qhorin's plan, and Qhorin is yelling insults for the benefit of the wildlings so they accept Jon's turning.

[Jaron]

The House of the Undying sucked.

I'm glad we got to see that whore again though.

[Berkut]

I thought the show was pretty clear in that Jon goes along with Qhorin's plan, and Qhorin is yelling insults for the benefit of the wildlings so they accept Jon's turning.

I think that is what they were going for, I just don't think it was that clear.

This was very important in the book, especially given Jons role later on - there was never any doubt where his allegiances lay, even if it was very hard for him to deal with.

The show (perhaps intentionally?) makes this much less clear.

[Habbaku]

I doubt it was intentional, but I'm open to the idea.

What they do with season 3 will confirm or deny that proposition.  They've had to cover roughly 65 chapters per season thus far, but by splitting book 3 into two pieces, they now have to cover, what, 40 per?  It will be interesting to see how they fill the time.

[Admiral Yi]

Just caught a rerun of the finale.

I was more or less OK with the tiny dragons napalming the wizard.

What I didn't get was Theon getting sandbagged by his men, then the men going home...right through the 500 beseiging dudes??  And why did cripple boy and crew take off?  The bad guys were gone.

[Habbaku]

What I didn't get was Theon getting sandbagged by his men, then the men going home...right through the 500 beseiging dudes??  And why did cripple boy and crew take off?  The bad guys were gone.

The former will no doubt be explained by a scene with Theon next season.  It's explained more thoroughly in the books and I suspect that they didn't show the outcome there because they wanted to hold off on casting a very important secondary character until they had to (season 3).

The latter is clearly explained by Maester Luwin when he speaks with the Bran and friends.

[Tamas]

Just caught a rerun of the finale.

I was more or less OK with the tiny dragons napalming the wizard.

What I didn't get was Theon getting sandbagged by his men, then the men going home...right through the 500 beseiging dudes??  And why did cripple boy and crew take off?  The bad guys were gone.

Robb gave the instruction of let those people go if they hand over Theon.

And if you read the books, you know the answer for the rest. I am not spoilering.

[Admiral Yi]

The latter is clearly explained by Maester Luwin when he speaks with the Bran and friends.

His explanation doesn't make any sense.  Sure, they shouldn't head south because they could get bushwacked by Lannisters.  But what's the risk of staying in Winterfell?