Game of Thrones begins....

[grumbler]

No, the Riverlands used to be part of the Iron Islands, but aren't a kingdom themselves.  They are, however, rather strong in their own right and might as well be the "eighth kingdom".

Nor was House Tyrell ever royalty.  House Baratheon was only royal during Robert's rule.  House Greyjoy was not royal, either, except briefly during Baylon's Revolt.

Only four of the houses that led kingdom's before Arron's invasion are still extant.  The Storm Kings, Gardners, and Hoares all perished during the conquest.

[Sophie Scholl]

I know Catelyn objected to sending Theon back to his father to negotiate.  For some reason I think others might have as well.  Catelyn wanted to go in Theon's place, but Robb shot her down.

[Berkut]

I know Catelyn objected to sending Theon back to his father to negotiate.  For some reason I think others might have as well.  Catelyn wanted to go in Theon's place, but Robb shot her down.

That Robb sure made a lot of really great decisions...

Of course, I don't think it would have worked out much better with Catelyn going - that would have just given the Greyjoys a hostage to match against Theon, and I don't think they cared much about Theon at that point anyway.

[grumbler]

Indeed, Robb sends him home to seek an alliance with Greyjoy, not to ask or demand that Greyjoy submit to him, or to tell him that he is their new king.

But why wouldn't Robb want, and Theon offer, the loyalty and submission of the Iron Islands after Balon (who was getting on in years) died?  The Greyjoys had always (with the exception of a few months or years during their rebellion) been subject to kings.

[grumbler]

Not only that, he proposes to recognize Balon Greyjoy as a fellow monarch, co-equal in status.

Balon, yes.  Robb couldn't have hoped that Balon would subject himself to a king.

[Berkut]

No, the Riverlands used to be part of the Iron Islands, but aren't a kingdom themselves.  They are, however, rather strong in their own right and might as well be the "eighth kingdom".

Nor was House Tyrell ever royalty.  House Baratheon was only royal during Robert's rule.  House Greyjoy was not royal, either, except briefly during Baylon's Revolt.

The House was not royal, but the Iron Islands were a Kingdom before, and Greyjoy was one of the house who claimed descent from the rulers of the Iron Islands, I think.

[Berkut]

Indeed, Robb sends him home to seek an alliance with Greyjoy, not to ask or demand that Greyjoy submit to him, or to tell him that he is their new king.

But why wouldn't Robb want, and Theon offer, the loyalty and submission of the Iron Islands after Balon (who was getting on in years) died? 

I don't know - why doesn't anyone offer submission ot kings if they don't have to?

The justification for the revolt of the North was that the North was only conquered because the Taergareyns had dragons - no dragons, so why should they be subject to Kings Landing anymore?

Prior to that subjugation by Aegon, the Iron Isles were not subject to the King in the North - why would they agree to be subject them to them now?

[grumbler]

1. Because Robb trusts him
2. Because Robb assumes the best about others
3. Because Robb is kind of an idiot at times.
True, there is nothing in the book that says Theon did NOT swear an oath to Robb, but I think there is good reason for that - because such an oath would not make much sense.

It makes perfect sense to me.  Why would Theon want to be an independent king, loding it over an unruly people, when he could have everything he wanted and the support of a powerful liege?  It makes perfect sense to me, from what I know of Theon and his hopes.

But Theon is not the head of a house. That is my point - he is just the heir. He has no legal authority (I don't thin) to bind Greyjoy under the King in the North.

IIRC, his proposal was actually to allow Balon to crown himself King, and part of the reason Theon was so ridiculed was the implication that the Starks would "give" a kingship to Balon, rather than him seizing it himself.

I'll rewatch the episode.  I don't recall him binding his father to anything.

I was surprised, even reading the books, that some of Robbs advisers did not object to the proposal in fact - presumably these men would know Balon Greyjoy - , but perhaps they were not even consulted - I think the proposal was something of a secret.

I think you are right in this - that this would thing was the escapade of two young nobles who think they can, between themselves, change the world.  I just don't see it at all untypical of Theon to pledge his loyalty to Robb.  He lacked self-confidence and was a natural second fiddle.  Had Martin explicitly written it that way in the books, I would have thought nothing unusual of it.

[grumbler]

The House was not royal, but the Iron Islands were a Kingdom before, and Greyjoy was one of the house who claimed descent from the rulers of the Iron Islands, I think.

Nope.  They were chosen by the Iron Islanders after House Hoare was annihilated, presumably because they were the most powerful remaining nobility.

[Josquius]

Theon does seem very loyal to Robb when he first goes to the Iron Isles and wanting to help him. Only when it becomes clear that isn't going to happen does he realise that in his own best interest he better follow the old adage of in for a penny, in for a pound.

In the episode he says nought about his dad or the Iron Islands. Just about Robb always being a brother to him and so he swears his brotherhood and all that.

[The Larch]

So, besides the geopolitics, what do you think of the peek we got at Jaqen, Rorge and Biter? 

[Habbaku]

The peek at those three was pretty awesome.  I can only hope that Rorge and Biter are as "nice" as they are in the books.

[Martinus]

BTW, here's some Targaryen-Stark bonding as if they were in a Tommy Hillfiger ad:

Viserys/Dany/Robb slashfic incoming?

Yes.

[Habbaku]

BTW, here's some Targaryen-Stark bonding as if they were in a Tommy Hillfiger ad:

Viserys/Dany/Robb slashfic incoming?

Yes.

You know one of them is a girl, right?

[grumbler]

I don't know - why doesn't anyone offer submission ot kings if they don't have to?

Polities have joined kingdoms voluntarily to receive protection many times. 

The justification for the revolt of the North was that the North was only conquered because the Taergareyns had dragons - no dragons, so why should they be subject to Kings Landing anymore?

The justification for the revolt of the North was that House Baratheon had proven itself unable to defeat the Lannisters, and only a King could muster the loyalty of the Tully bannerman, insofar as I can tell (it could also have just been the Stark bannermen feeling their oats - that was a sorry lot, indeed).

Prior to that subjugation by Aegon, the Iron Isles were not subject to the King in the North - why would they agree to be subject them to them now?

Because Theon would feel more secure in his rule, if he had a liege to back him up, is my proposition.

It isn't like this hadn't happened in history.  Lithuania voluntarily subjected itself to Poland.  Most of the Swiss cantons voluntarily joined the Holy Roman Empire when the Francia kingdoms broke up.