Game of Thrones begins....

[Razgovory]

I doubt Martin can either. The Vale always struck me as one of those only-in-fantasy-land places.

All of Westeros struck me as that.  It's suppose to be the size of South America, but they move around it fairly quick, and there's only like five cities.

[Faeelin]

That's one of the things I find so odd about the series. People praise the ASOIF for its worldbuilding, but it feels... thin.There isn't a lot of thought about how the world described would actually work.

[Sahib]

I doubt Martin can either. The Vale always struck me as one of those only-in-fantasy-land places.

All of Westeros struck me as that.  It's suppose to be the size of South America, but they move around it fairly quick, and there's only like five cities.

Still more than in the Middle Earth.

[Martinus]

So, Tywin Lannister planned the whole thing about getting Robb Stark to marry Jeyne Westerling, to force the Freys to switch sides.
I was shocked when I found out. Wasn't this a little too cunning for the Lannisters, more like Varys' or Littlefinger's MO?

For Lannisters, yes. For Tywin, no. He is supposed to be devilishly smart. Only Tyrion comes close from the Lannister spawn. That is why they find themselves in deep shit when he croaks.

[Viking]

For Lannisters, yes. For Tywin, no. He is supposed to be devilishly smart. Only Tyrion comes close from the Lannister spawn. That is why they find themselves in deep shit when he croaks.

Basically the Lannister faction loses Tywin, Tyrion, Littlefinger, Varys, Kevan and Mace as wise heads in a week leaving Cersei in charge. That is why they find themselves in deep shit, it's not so much they lose the genius, it's more like they lose anybody competent.

[viper37]

So, Tywin Lannister planned the whole thing about getting Robb Stark to marry Jeyne Westerling, to force the Freys to switch sides.
I was shocked when I found out. Wasn't this a little too cunning for the Lannisters, more like Varys' or Littlefinger's MO?

It was told on not so many words in book 3, I think.  Tyrion I believe confronted his father about his bannermans forgetting the famous song about the people who betraid Tywin Lannister in the past and his answer was that they didn't forget their duties.
Once you get to the actual marriage, it's easy to understand.

[Berkut]

Yeah, that was a pretty bvious one - the moment I read that part I suspected that was a setup.

It was really well done - Robb turned out to be this very capable military leader, far beyond anyone's expectations. But at the end of the day, he was still just a boy, and done in by his being just a boy.

[grumbler]

Yeah, that was a pretty bvious one - the moment I read that part I suspected that was a setup.

It was really well done - Robb turned out to be this very capable military leader, far beyond anyone's expectations. But at the end of the day, he was still just a boy, and done in by his being just a boy.

It also was completely absurd, as a plot line.  How would Lannister know that Robb would be wounded, and, if wounded, taken to The Crag to be tended to? 

It works only if you don't pay too close attention, like many of Martin's plot devices.

But you are correct within the context of the story; Robb is defeated because he is still "the boy" enough to think himself so in love with someone he just met that he throws over his entire strategy for the war for the sake of that love.  It would have worked better if this had just been a chance meeting, though.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, that was a pretty bvious one - the moment I read that part I suspected that was a setup.

It was really well done - Robb turned out to be this very capable military leader, far beyond anyone's expectations. But at the end of the day, he was still just a boy, and done in by his being just a boy.

It also was completely absurd, as a plot line.  How would Lannister know that Robb would be wounded, and, if wounded, taken to The Crag to be tended to? 

It works only if you don't pay too close attention, like many of Martin's plot devices.

But you are correct within the context of the story; Robb is defeated because he is still "the boy" enough to think himself so in love with someone he just met that he throws over his entire strategy for the war for the sake of that love.  It would have worked better if this had just been a chance meeting, though.

I have to agree with Grumbles here.  The great plotters in the books must have supernatural prescience for their schemes to work.   They often hinge on events they simply can't control and it's often difficult to see how they would even benefit.

[Jacob]

That's one of the things I find so odd about the series. People praise the ASOIF for its worldbuilding, but it feels... thin.There isn't a lot of thought about how the world described would actually work.

That, and the fact that the various families have been around for thousands of years in some cases. It's just kind of weird.

[Razgovory]

That's one of the things I find so odd about the series. People praise the ASOIF for its worldbuilding, but it feels... thin.There isn't a lot of thought about how the world described would actually work.

That, and the fact that the various families have been around for thousands of years in some cases. It's just kind of weird.

I thought that strange as well.  Especially considering all the murdering they do to each other.

[garbon]

I like the trailer using Florence + The Machine.

[Berkut]

I can certainly understand some questions about how the physics of the world would work (as far as decades long summer/winter, etc.), but to describe the "world" as thin? Huh?

That is kind of dumbfounding to me - Westeros is many things, but I cannot think of any fantasy ever (LotR excepted, although it has become so iconic it is kind of hard to really judge) that has a more real feel to the world the author created.

[garbon]

That is kind of dumbfounding to me - Westeros is many things, but I cannot think of any fantasy ever (LotR excepted, although it has become so iconic it is kind of hard to really judge) that has a more real feel to the world the author created.

Kate Elliot did pretty good with her Crossroads series and in only 3 books.  Not as admirable in her Crown of Stars series as that was really just fantasy Europe.

[garbon]

Martha Wells has done something of the same with several of her books although her country of Ile-Rien has been developed across time (different books take place in different eras) rather than so much on the geography.