Game of Thrones begins....

[Martinus]

The series has already diverted from the books in some things and the fandom hasn't cringed...that I know.

What has it diverted from?  Some scenes have been added, but the story hasn't changed.

Cersei is a way more sympathetic character in the series, for starters. Jaime also seems to display a more affectionate character. Those two were irredeemeable in the books at this point, while they're more nuanced in the series.

Besides that there's the Renly-Loras thingie, which was dealt with with the subtlety of a sledgehammer, when there were readers that still didn't get their thing from the books.

I disagree on both counts. Both examples you quote come from the fact that these were POVs not available in the books, so we could not see these conversations. We know already from later books that Jaime is quite a likeable character.

As for Renly and Loras, again it was implied in the books, because neither had a POV and obviously they wouldn't fuck with others watching. Now they can be showed intimate, I fail to see why their relationship should have been less "graphic" than that of any other characters. As for their relationship being secret in the books, imo this secrecy was less of a plot device and more of a character development device (i.e. these two having a secret affair was more a trait about them, and not something that the reader needed to discover to advance the plot - unlike the fact that Lannisters are fucking and all "Robert's" kids are Jaime's). Compare this to HBO's "Six Feet Under" - David being closeted was one of the main character arc for him, but that didn't prevent the creators from having him fuck another guy on the pilot.

[The Brain]

Implied, Marti? Or implode?

[The Larch]

The series has already diverted from the books in some things and the fandom hasn't cringed...that I know.

What has it diverted from?  Some scenes have been added, but the story hasn't changed.

Cersei is a way more sympathetic character in the series, for starters. Jaime also seems to display a more affectionate character. Those two were irredeemeable in the books at this point, while they're more nuanced in the series.

Besides that there's the Renly-Loras thingie, which was dealt with with the subtlety of a sledgehammer, when there were readers that still didn't get their thing from the books.

I disagree on both counts. Both examples you quote come from the fact that these were POVs not available in the books, so we could not see these conversations. We know already from later books that Jaime is quite a likeable character.

Which is why I said that they divert from the books on that.

[Slargos]

I'm just happily awaiting the deaths of the faggots.

I hope it's bloody.

[Martinus]

I'm just happily awaiting the deaths of the faggots.

I hope it's bloody.

You know that Loras doesn't die, right? In fact he goes into a blood rage and kills everybody after Renly dies.

[Slargos]

I'm just happily awaiting the deaths of the faggots.

I hope it's bloody.

You know that Loras doesn't die, right? In fact he goes into a blood rage and kills everybody after Renly dies.

Show's not over yet. 

[crazy canuck]

The series has already diverted from the books in some things and the fandom hasn't cringed...that I know.

Dont know about Fandom but I have.

About what?

There is a long list but I think I can summarize by saying that have added scenes that dont occur in the books which alter the character's motivations.  Some examples:

Why did Littlefinger tell Sansa about the Hound when the Hound's revelations to Sansa about his past was an important part of their relationship.

Why put add a scene where the Queen wonders with the King about what might have been, leading to the implication that Cersei is giving it one last shot before the king is killed?  The king isnt killed because he loved Stark's sister best and Cersei feels scorned.  He is killed to make way for a Lannister dynasty and that was always been the Queen's plan.

And for the love of God, why the shaving scene?  Renly didnt act because of some infatuation with a gay lover nor did Loras offer assistance to Renly because Renly was his lover.  The Lord of Highgarden was involved in a power play against the Lannisters but that political intrigue, which imo was the best thing about the books, is completely lost in the series.  All we are really left are a couple of gay lovers conspiring to take a crown.



They have gotten some things right though.  The imp (especially) and Littlefinger are well done.  That is what keeps me watching.

[Martinus]

And for the love of God, why the shaving scene?  Renly didnt act because of some infatuation with a gay lover nor did Loras offer assistance to Renly because Renly was his lover.  The Lord of Highgarden was involved in a power play against the Lannisters but that political intrigue, which imo was the best thing about the books, is completely lost in the series.  All we are really left are a couple of gay lovers conspiring to take a crown.

Nope. I think you are reading more into that scene than there is. They are showing us more than they did in the books that early, but that does not mean they are showing us everything.

It is pretty clear from the books that Tyrells manipulated Renly to an extent, through Loras and Margaery and the "shaving scene" fits into this perfectly. The things Loras tells Renly could have been put into his pretty little head by Olenna the Queen of Thorns - there is nothing to suggest otherwise (and Loras could very well believe these things - unlike Margaery, he is not that smart, so Olenna could have manipulated him as well). In fact, the shaving scene imo is a very convincing example of how the whole thing could have been started.

As a side note, for the record, there is no plot by the Lord of Highgarden, but by the mother of the Lord - as far as we know from the books, Mace Tyrell is a big oaf.

[Viking]

Well, Marty may have a point here.. Tyrell's don't seem to feel the need to follow the proper order of inheritance in both the cases of Renly and Tommen.

in other news, I found a non-spoilered forum for the TV show at televisionwithoutpity.com and among the misunderstandings, bookwalker spoilers and stuff proven wrong in the books I found a little gem. I'm paraphrasing it to cut out the useless rambling around explanation.

One of the posters seemed to think that the attempt to murder Bran was not to cover up for his witnessing the incest, but rather an unrelated plot to convince the Starks that the Lannisters were evil (which seems to be the effect) by murdering Bran after he fell to get the Starks to blame the Lannisters. In this case the person behind this plot would obviously not have known that Jamie actually threw Bran out of the tower. It actually made sense.

[The Minsky Moment]

I disagree on both counts. Both examples you quote come from the fact that these were POVs not available in the books, so we could not see these conversations. We know already from later books that Jaime is quite a likeable character.

His motivations are shown to be more complex and he matures as the result of experience, but "quite likeable"?? - no.

[Habbaku]

He's likeable in the sense that I enjoy reading his chapters and about him, in general.  Other than that, not so much.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I disagree on both counts. Both examples you quote come from the fact that these were POVs not available in the books, so we could not see these conversations. We know already from later books that Jaime is quite a likeable character.

His motivations are shown to be more complex and he matures as the result of experience, but "quite likeable"?? - no.

I guess he's likeable compared to Cersei...................but that's not saying much 

[crazy canuck]

Nope. I think you are reading more into that scene than there is. They are showing us more than they did in the books that early, but that does not mean they are showing us everything.

They are showing us something that didnt happen in the books at all.  There was no gay sex  in the books.  There was a lot of other sex but no gay sex.  That was just put into the series to attract gay viewers.  All you are left with is, well if we imagine something that didnt happen in the books that might have been in some way consistent this might be one of those possible things.

Which is really my point isnt it.  They have added material for no particular reason (or rather reasons other than being try to the books) at the cost of not including great material that was in the books.  Rather than seeing shaving scene I would rather have seen the flaming sword in action during the tournament - as just one example of the really interesting stuff missed because of this alt version of the books.

[Valmy]

As a side note, for the record, there is no plot by the Lord of Highgarden, but by the mother of the Lord - as far as we know from the books, Mace Tyrell is a big oaf.

Olenna certainly plots on a higher level than Mace but there is no doubt he wants one of his kids on the throne and is plotting to do it.

[Valmy]

I'm just happily awaiting the deaths of the faggots.

I hope it's bloody.

You know that Loras doesn't die, right? In fact he goes into a blood rage and kills everybody after Renly dies.

He may be referring to the boiling oil thingy.