China white paper highlights US military 'competition'

[grumbler]

If they ditched over land, how likely would it be that all sensitive stuff would be destroyed on impact?

On impact with a bunch of civvie's homes?  Highly likely, not that it would make the pilots responsible for all those deaths feel much better.

[MadBurgerMaker]

There's no way I'd jump out of a P-3 over the damn ocean if the option to just land the thing was there.  Yeah, my water survival training at NACCS was great and all, but seriously: fuck that.

[Caliga]

Have you ever wondered why there is never any interview footage with the other two members of Bush's crew from that flight?  No books by them, no reunions with the Big Guy?

Interesting... for some reason I always assumed he was flying solo on that mission.

After Bush's promotion to Lieutenant (junior grade) on August 1, the San Jacinto commenced operations against the Japanese in the Bonin Islands. Bush piloted one of four Grumman TBM Avenger aircraft from VT-51 that attacked the Japanese installations on Chichijima.[6] His crew for the mission, which occurred on September 2, 1944, included Radioman Second Class John Delaney and Lieutenant Junior Grade William White.[1] During their attack, the Avengers encountered intense anti-aircraft fire; Bush's aircraft was hit by flak[7] and his engine caught on fire.[1] Despite his plane being on fire, Bush completed his attack and released bombs over his target, scoring several damaging hits.[1] With his engine afire, Bush flew several miles from the island, where he and one other crew member on the TBM Avenger bailed out of the aircraft;[7] the other man's parachute did not open.[1] It has not been determined which man bailed out with Bush[1] as both Delaney and White were killed as a result of the battle.[7] Bush waited for four hours in an inflated raft, while several fighters circled protectively overhead until he was rescued by the lifeguard submarine USS Finback.[1] For the next month he remained on the Finback, and participated in the rescue of other pilots.

[Neil]

Have you ever wondered why there is never any interview footage with the other two members of Bush's crew from that flight?  No books by them, no reunions with the Big Guy?

Maybe they got AIDS and died because of Reagan's anti-homo policies in the 80s?

[Caliga]

  Like any of our WWII heroes were homosexuals.  Homosexuality didn't exist till they abolished the Hays Code.

[Neil]

Have you ever wondered why there is never any interview footage with the other two members of Bush's crew from that flight?  No books by them, no reunions with the Big Guy?

Interesting... for some reason I always assumed he was flying solo on that mission.

The only time you'll see a solo Avenger is in the computer game Dive Bomber.

[Neil]

Like any of our WWII heroes were homosexuals.  Homosexuality didn't exist till they abolished the Hays Code.

Then perhaps they were beaten to death by crazed hippies at the Democratic Convention in 1968?

[Tonitrus]

Have you ever wondered why there is never any interview footage with the other two members of Bush's crew from that flight?  No books by them, no reunions with the Big Guy?

Interesting... for some reason I always assumed he was flying solo on that mission.

As had I...I stand corrected.

But I was being facetious, of course.  I'd figure the number of survived water-landings would be rather low.  Which is why that New York water landing incident in a commercial aircraft show just that much more how awesome that pilot was.

[Monoriu]

Which neighbours of China have been bullied by it?

History aside in more recent times they're being dicks towards Japan, Vietnam and the Phillipines over 'disputed' (to varying degrees) islands.

Japan has conflicts with South Korea, Russia and China on different islands.  The China-Japan conflict is hardly unique.  On Vietnam and Phillipines, pretty much all nations around the South China Sea islands claim those as their own.  Other involved countries include Malaysia, Indonesia, and Brunei.

[Monoriu]

I disagree.  The HK mentality is generally much different from that of the mainland - and even those mainland Chinese who go abroad tend to be among the most open minded and liberal of Chinese (whether initially or by virtue of living overseas).

If anything, there is a *significant* segment of the Chinese population that is far more nationalistic and aggressive than the PRC government.  Many of these types are fueled by a massive victim and inferiority complex, intense national pride and desire to "make China strong and respected".  These people frequently tend to believe the most ridiculous things.  And what is worrisome in China today is that, generally speaking, the younger people are, the more fiercely jingoistic they tend to be.

I share the same impression.  Some of the antics by the mainland youths scare me as well.

[Neil]

Japan has conflicts with South Korea, Russia and China on different islands.  The China-Japan conflict is hardly unique.  On Vietnam and Phillipines, pretty much all nations around the South China Sea islands claim those as their own.  Other involved countries include Malaysia, Indonesia, and Brunei.

The difference is that China and Russia are the enemies of civilization.

[Admiral Yi]

I share the same impression.  Some of the antics by the mainland youths scare me as well.

Confess your crimes!  Kaotao to Chairman Mao!

[Monoriu]

The Russia-Japan dispute:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuril_Islands_dispute

The SK - Japan dispute (which is remarkably similar to the Japan-China one, except that here it is the Koreans who maintain a military presence on the island) -

Liancourt RocksMain article: Liancourt Rocks dispute
The Liancourt Rocks, called Dokdo (독도; "solitary island") in Korean and Takeshima (竹島; "bamboo island") in Japanese, are a group of islets in the Sea of Japan (East Sea) whose ownership is disputed between Japan and South Korea. There are valuable fishing grounds around the islets and potentially large reserves of natural gas. Although Liancourt Rocks are claimed by both Korea and Japan, the islets are currently administered by the Republic of Korea (South Korea), which has its Korean Coast Guard stationed there.[63]

The territorial dispute is a major source of nationalist tensions. Many Korean nationals have placed the dispute in the context of the history of occupation, so that ceding the territory to Japan would be an unthinkable affront to national dignity: a renewal of past Japanese subjugation.[64] Korean tourists visit the remote, inhospitable island, in order to show national solidarity.[64] In Japan, schoolchildren are instructed that the islands belong rightfully to Japan, and in 2005 Japanese officials declared "Takeshima Day", to highlight their territorial claim to the islands.[64]

[Monoriu]

I share the same impression.  Some of the antics by the mainland youths scare me as well.

Confess your crimes!  Kaotao to Chairman Mao!

I only kowtow to HR 

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

There's no way I'd jump out of a P-3 over the damn ocean if the option to just land the thing was there.  Yeah, my water survival training at NACCS was great and all, but seriously: fuck that.

Actually, P-3 crews would rather land the bird in the ocean than jump out airborne anywhere.  I don't remember off the top of my head what it is, but something about the design and aerodynamics of the P-3 makes it a very dangerous aircraft to bail out of.

Edit:
Looking at a picture of the plane jogged my memory.  Its the location of the aft door relative to the horizontal tail surfaces.  The tail is so wide and low that if the crew doesn't jump out just the right way they'll hit it.