Arizona outlaws abortions based on race and sex

[alfred russel]

I can't figure out how to enforce these laws, or the point of the race aspect. Is that really a problem?

I think abortion based on sex of the embryo/fetus should be prohibited, but obviously enforcement is an issue and I don't think this is so much of a problem in this country. Maybe enforcement would be possible is if a couple is pursuing fertility treatments for a certain sex of the child, and is able to get pregnant but with the opposite sex.

[dps]

I wish anti-abortion activists would instead try to find new and creative ways to prevent unwanted pregnancies and thus work to make the whole point of abortions moot.  Trying to use the power of the state without addressing the root cause of the problem seems destined to fail IMO.

This will never happen, because generally the more opposed to abortion someone is, the more likely they also oppose measures like the morning after pill, availability of condoms, sex education in schools, or the very concept of family planning itself.

Your both seem to be pre-supposing that the "root cause" of abortion and unwanted pregnancies in general is a lack of availblity and knowledge of birth control.  It's not--the root cause is people just being irresponsible.  I'm not saying that lack of knowledge of birth control in never an issue,  but--let me put it this way:  I've known lots of people who had unwanted pregnancies.  None of them didn't know about or have birth control available.  The vast majority just didn't care enough to use it.  The 2 exceptions that I know about were using contraception and suffered contraceptive failure.

[grumbler]

Grumbler, you need to review Planned Parenthood v. Casey http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=6298856056242550994&q=505+US+833&hl=en&as_sdt=40003, which is a more recent case than Roe v. Wade, and which is the foundation of current abortion jurisprudence. Casey did not explicitly reject the privacy justification, but it did reformulate the right to terminate pregnancy as explicitly protected under the liberty interest in the due process clause. Casey recognized the right to terminate an abortion. What Casey also recognized is that this is not an absolute right; the state has an interest in the life of the fetus after it obtains viability. The trimester distinction in Roe v. Wade was dropped. 

As DPS  basically stated, going forward, the test is whether a disputed law burden places a substantial obstacle in the path of a woman seeking an pre-viability abortion.

Your interpretation of Casey differs from mine.  "Liberty" in that case means nothing different than the right to make private decisions did in Roe.   Casey just uses some different words to reach the same conclusions as Roe, and I don't see Casey granting a "right" in a "constitutionally-protected right" sense.  The "right of the woman to terminate the pregnancy" is explicitly the "constitutional liberty of the woman to have some freedom to terminate her pregnancy."  The trimester framework was explicitly dropped, though, and I hadn't seen this.

What I am saying is that i don't disagree with all of your point, but do disagree that Webster created a "right to abort."  It, instead, reaffirmed that a woman could get an abortion as without undue state interference because she possesses liberties that the state cannot infringe upon without a compelling need.

[grumbler]

This will never happen, because generally the more opposed to abortion someone is, the more likely they also oppose measures like the morning after pill, availability of condoms, sex education in schools, or the very concept of family planning itself.

Long story short, most pro-lifers support anything that increases birth rates, and oppose anything that reduces them.

My reading is that most "pro-lifers" view pregnancy as a punishment for sex, and view abortion, along with birth control, as ways to cheat and have sex without the risk of punishment.  Thus, they oppose both abortion and birth control, because they think the fear of pregnancy reduces the amount of "immoral sex" being engaged in.

[Slargos]

This will never happen, because generally the more opposed to abortion someone is, the more likely they also oppose measures like the morning after pill, availability of condoms, sex education in schools, or the very concept of family planning itself.

Long story short, most pro-lifers support anything that increases birth rates, and oppose anything that reduces them.

My reading is that most "pro-lifers" view pregnancy as a punishment for sex, and view abortion, along with birth control, as ways to cheat and have sex without the risk of punishment.  Thus, they oppose both abortion and birth control, because they think the fear of pregnancy reduces the amount of "immoral sex" being engaged in.

What a deliciously bizarre position.

[The Brain]

This will never happen, because generally the more opposed to abortion someone is, the more likely they also oppose measures like the morning after pill, availability of condoms, sex education in schools, or the very concept of family planning itself.

Long story short, most pro-lifers support anything that increases birth rates, and oppose anything that reduces them.

My reading is that most "pro-lifers" view pregnancy as a punishment for sex, and view abortion, along with birth control, as ways to cheat and have sex without the risk of punishment.  Thus, they oppose both abortion and birth control, because they think the fear of pregnancy reduces the amount of "immoral sex" being engaged in.

What a deliciously bizarre position.

Welcome to the USA.

[grumbler]

What a deliciously bizarre position.

Indeed.  But it also allows them to accept abortion in the cases of rape and incest, because then the sex wasn't voluntary and so doesn't need to be punished.

[The Brain]

  You don't punish people for sex, you punish people during sex.

[Valmy]

Your both seem to be pre-supposing that the "root cause" of abortion and unwanted pregnancies in general is a lack of availblity and knowledge of birth control.  It's not--the root cause is people just being irresponsible.  I'm not saying that lack of knowledge of birth control in never an issue,  but--let me put it this way:  I've known lots of people who had unwanted pregnancies.  None of them didn't know about or have birth control available.  The vast majority just didn't care enough to use it.  The 2 exceptions that I know about were using contraception and suffered contraceptive failure.

Having to use a condom or take your birth control pills every day does require a certain level of responsibility.  What if it was something you only had to take once a year or something even simpler?  I don't know I think some progress could be made to continue to improve contraception and continue to reduce unplanned pregnancies with an aim to eliminate abortions.  At least if I felt strongly pro-life that would seem to be the most realistic and potentially fruitful avenue.

[The Brain]

Your both seem to be pre-supposing that the "root cause" of abortion and unwanted pregnancies in general is a lack of availblity and knowledge of birth control.  It's not--the root cause is people just being irresponsible.  I'm not saying that lack of knowledge of birth control in never an issue,  but--let me put it this way:  I've known lots of people who had unwanted pregnancies.  None of them didn't know about or have birth control available.  The vast majority just didn't care enough to use it.  The 2 exceptions that I know about were using contraception and suffered contraceptive failure.

Having to use a condom or take your birth control pills every day does require a certain level of responsibility.  What if it was something you only had to take once a year or something even simpler?  I don't know I think some progress could be made to continue to improve contraception and continue to reduce unplanned pregnancies with an aim to eliminate abortions.  At least if I felt strongly pro-life that would seem to be the most realistic and potentially fruitful avenue.

Co-60 held close to the bathing suit area.

[grumbler]

Having to use a condom or take your birth control pills every day does require a certain level of responsibility.  What if it was something you only had to take once a year or something even simpler?  I don't know I think some progress could be made to continue to improve contraception and continue to reduce unplanned pregnancies with an aim to eliminate abortions.  At least if I felt strongly pro-life that would seem to be the most realistic and potentially fruitful avenue.

Agreed.  Birth control would ideally be default circumstance, with the partners having to both take action to allow contraception to be possible.  I, like you, am not convinced this is scientifically impossible, but agree that it is politically impossible in the US, due to the fact that sex, not pregnancy/abortion, is the issue in contention.

[PDH]

I wish more parents of potential politicians had chosen to get an abortion based on the knowledge that their children would be stupid.

[dps]

I wish more parents of potential Languish posters had chosen to get an abortion based on the knowledge that their children would be stupid.

fyp

[Valmy]

I wish more parents of potential Languish posters had chosen to get an abortion based on the knowledge that their children would be stupid.

fyp

Fortunately our stupidy only harms those masochistic enough to read Languish

[jimmy olsen]

Your both seem to be pre-supposing that the "root cause" of abortion and unwanted pregnancies in general is a lack of availblity and knowledge of birth control.  It's not--the root cause is people just being irresponsible.  I'm not saying that lack of knowledge of birth control in never an issue,  but--let me put it this way:  I've known lots of people who had unwanted pregnancies.  None of them didn't know about or have birth control available.  The vast majority just didn't care enough to use it.  The 2 exceptions that I know about were using contraception and suffered contraceptive failure.

Having to use a condom or take your birth control pills every day does require a certain level of responsibility.  What if it was something you only had to take once a year or something even simpler?  I don't know I think some progress could be made to continue to improve contraception and continue to reduce unplanned pregnancies with an aim to eliminate abortions.  At least if I felt strongly pro-life that would seem to be the most realistic and potentially fruitful avenue.

A hundred years from now when we're all born with inheritable neural implants made from nanites, women will be able to control their reproductive cycle with conscious thought.