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The Great Arab Revolt Continues.

Started by jamesww, March 25, 2011, 08:08:01 PM

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Martinus

Quote from: Tamas on March 27, 2011, 04:59:41 AM
Their political and cultural development around the time of WW2, altough lacking compared to the West, were well ahead of the general Arab one of present day.
I think you are overestimating the cultural gap in that period. Illiteracy in Poland was rampant, just as the cultural level of the peasantry, and there is no reason to assume it was vastly different in other countries of the region.

Slargos

Quote from: Tamas on March 27, 2011, 04:59:41 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 27, 2011, 03:35:46 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 27, 2011, 03:01:59 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 26, 2011, 10:31:31 PM
The Fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the USSR was rightly hailed as the opening of a new era of international peace and cooperation.

Apples and oranges.

How? Both Eastern Europeans and Arabs have nationalist and religiously retarded tendencies, both have been living under dictatorships, both view the West with a mixture of envy, amazement and "you left us to rot" resentment, both have very little history of actual democracy, as opposed to living under either foreign rule or local tin pot dictator/monarch/tyrant, both have shitty economies but with a big potential.

Now, I share your hope that there are differences so Egypt does not end up a failed state like Hungary, but still the experience is likely to be similar.

East euros had been neighbors of the west for quite a while. In fact, their values come from the same roots. Really, to say that East Euro stance toward Western values is as the same as the muslim stance is trolling of the highest caliber.

Their political and cultural development around the time of WW2, altough lacking compared to the West, were well ahead of the general Arab one of present day.

The problems of commie East Europe was plenty. However, illiteracy and overpopulation was not among them.

There are similarities of course. Most notably that realizing the gap between western standards of living and their own played a big part in triggering the changes.
For the arabs, it was the internets, for us, it was VHS recorders.

Elephant. It's right there.

While you balkantards have been tainted by the Turks, the reason why you were quicker to seize on the fruits of civilization was of course due to an entirely different ancestry than cultural.  :sleep:

Darth Wagtaros

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 27, 2011, 12:57:01 PM
:huh:

The most obvious difference is that the Arab autocrats don't have 40 armoured divisions poised to invade West Germany.
More's the pity. The Wall provided a great deal of stability and techno-thrillers that we really haven't had since.
PDH!

jamesww

From an al-Jazeera report on demonstration in Sanamin, Syria:

"They are not hungry for bread, they chant "We want our freedom and dignity" "

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/201132818173548579.html

Ed Anger

Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

derspiess

Quote from: Ed Anger on March 29, 2011, 12:14:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0i9acHS_zQ&feature=player_embedded

For the Angry birds fan who likes revolutions.

:thumbsup:  Awesome.  Wonder if this would be a good way to get my kid interested in current events.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall


MadImmortalMan

I am out of touch on this angry birds thing.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Slargos

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 29, 2011, 01:15:36 PM
I am out of touch on this angry birds thing.

I've stayed away from it with a fierce purpose, but I don't think you need to appreciate that phenomenon in order to appreciate this vid.


jamesww

Things seemed to have stalled, Libya is an odd low intensity stalemate, Bahrain appears to be quietly murdering opponents in jail, Al Assad's security forces are holding the line in Syria.

Only in Egypt is there some hope, todays detention of Mubarak and his sons, seems promising, maybe all lawyers aren't so bad after all.  :)

MadImmortalMan

They had a big demonstration of women and children blocking some highway in Syria this week.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Sheilbh

Quote from: jamesww on April 14, 2011, 12:19:52 PM
Things seemed to have stalled, Libya is an odd low intensity stalemate, Bahrain appears to be quietly murdering opponents in jail, Al Assad's security forces are holding the line in Syria.

Only in Egypt is there some hope, todays detention of Mubarak and his sons, seems promising, maybe all lawyers aren't so bad after all.  :)
There's hope all over.  I think Egypt and Tunisia got everyone overexcited and expecting the regimes to topple on a monthly basis.  This is far from over in terms of transforming the region.  The Arab street, as it were, is already entirely different from just three months ago.

Syria's hotter than I expected, but I don't know.  Tunisia's still very hopeful, moreso than Egypt I think, they've just abolished the secret police and announced the date of elections for a constitutional convention.
Let's bomb Russia!

KRonn

Quote from: Sheilbh on April 14, 2011, 01:18:02 PM
Quote from: jamesww on April 14, 2011, 12:19:52 PM
Things seemed to have stalled, Libya is an odd low intensity stalemate, Bahrain appears to be quietly murdering opponents in jail, Al Assad's security forces are holding the line in Syria.

Only in Egypt is there some hope, todays detention of Mubarak and his sons, seems promising, maybe all lawyers aren't so bad after all.  :)
There's hope all over.  I think Egypt and Tunisia got everyone overexcited and expecting the regimes to topple on a monthly basis.  This is far from over in terms of transforming the region.  The Arab street, as it were, is already entirely different from just three months ago.

Syria's hotter than I expected, but I don't know.  Tunisia's still very hopeful, moreso than Egypt I think, they've just abolished the secret police and announced the date of elections for a constitutional convention.

Yeah, Syria is hotter and lasting longer than I had expected. I'm worried about Egypt, as the more organized groups like Muslim Brotherhood may have the upper hand. But agreed on that times are a changing in the Arab/Muslim world. Just remains to be seen if Iran or other extreme players will gain or lose after all.

citizen k

QuoteSyrian president orders release of protesters
By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press

BEIRUT – Syria's president ordered the release Thursday of hundreds of detainees involved in a month of protests seeking to wrest political freedoms from one of the Middle East's most repressive governments.

The order, announced by state TV, signaled an attempt by President Bashar Assad to calm weeks of growing protest anger and pre-empt what is expected to be another day of large demonstrations on Friday.

Protests erupted in Syria a month ago and have steadily increased, with tens of thousands calling for sweeping political reforms from Assad's authoritarian regime. More than 200 people have been killed during in the government's crackdown, according to Syria's leading pro-democracy group.

The state TV announcement did not say how many protesters would be released or how many authorities were holding. It said the release order did not apply to those involved in "criminal acts" but that most of those taken into custody would be freed.

The country's new prime minister, meanwhile, announced his Cabinet two weeks after Assad fired the previous government in an earlier gesture that failed to contain the unrest.

Violence continued Thursday in a major port city where the government has waged a crackdown on several days of protests.

The state-run SANA news agency reported that snipers fired on a Syrian military patrol in Banias, killing one soldier and wounding another.

Syria's government and its state-run media have sought to cast the unrest as a foreign conspiracy perpetrated by armed gangs targeting security forces and civilians. Reform activists, however, say their movement is peaceful.

The SANA report had few other details about the shooting, and because of severe restrictions on independent journalists it was not possible to verify the information.