[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

Its good to see 

[Josephus]

"Because it's the current year"  They can keep using those signs

[crazy canuck]

"Because it's the current year"  They can keep using those signs

fundraising levels are not what they used to be

It will be interesting to see whether this more progressive wing of the party is still influential when the new leader is selected.

[garbon]

I just liked the "Because it's the current year" slogan.

Yeah. I guess it'd be bad form to quote Trudeau verbatim

Well it would probably be odd to note that it is 2015 in 2016.

[Malthus]

"Because it's the current year"  They can keep using those signs

fundraising levels are not what they used to be

It will be interesting to see whether this more progressive wing of the party is still influential when the new leader is selected.

I think gay rights are just a done deal in many places in Canada - so much so that it has become an acceptable small-c conservative position: it is now part of the status quo that the majority of conservatives want to preserve. It isn't 'progressive' in a sense any more - that is, it isn't something that needs to be made to happen, but rather something that has happened.

Doesn't mean homophobic bigotry is dead of course, only that as a political issue it is dead: there is no appetite to pass laws discriminating against gays. You know something is no longer a live issue when progress on that issue is celebrated in a ritual way by pretty well everyone, and radicals try to muscle in on that celebration to plug their own agendas - as regularly happens with Toronto's Pride Parade (this year, it was attended by the PM and was blocked by Black Lives Matter activists who forced the organizers to sign a list of their demands). The point is clear: gay activists aren't radicals anymore, they are part of the establishment, and so get targeted by radicals.

[Barrister]

Kenney to announce today he is running for Alberta PC Leadership, with the stated intent of merging the party with Wildrose.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jason-kenney-alberta-pc-wildrose-leadership-1.3664666

[Jacob]

I think gay rights are just a done deal in many places in Canada - so much so that it has become an acceptable small-c conservative position: it is now part of the status quo that the majority of conservatives want to preserve. It isn't 'progressive' in a sense any more - that is, it isn't something that needs to be made to happen, but rather something that has happened.

Doesn't mean homophobic bigotry is dead of course, only that as a political issue it is dead: there is no appetite to pass laws discriminating against gays. You know something is no longer a live issue when progress on that issue is celebrated in a ritual way by pretty well everyone, and radicals try to muscle in on that celebration to plug their own agendas - as regularly happens with Toronto's Pride Parade (this year, it was attended by the PM and was blocked by Black Lives Matter activists who forced the organizers to sign a list of their demands). The point is clear: gay activists aren't radicals anymore, they are part of the establishment, and so get targeted by radicals.

That's not quite the version I heard, though this is all second hand (so could be wrong)... but from what I understand BLM Toronto was the Pride parades Honoured Activist Group for 2016. I absolutely concur that gay pride is no longer particularly controversial - but I don't think characterizing what happened as "radicals muscling in on that celebration" and "gay activists aren't radical anymore". As I understand it actual gay activists (as opposed the likes of Wente and Blatchford and other such pearl clutchers) were fairly welcoming of BLM's demands.

[Barrister]

I think gay rights are just a done deal in many places in Canada - so much so that it has become an acceptable small-c conservative position: it is now part of the status quo that the majority of conservatives want to preserve. It isn't 'progressive' in a sense any more - that is, it isn't something that needs to be made to happen, but rather something that has happened.

Doesn't mean homophobic bigotry is dead of course, only that as a political issue it is dead: there is no appetite to pass laws discriminating against gays. You know something is no longer a live issue when progress on that issue is celebrated in a ritual way by pretty well everyone, and radicals try to muscle in on that celebration to plug their own agendas - as regularly happens with Toronto's Pride Parade (this year, it was attended by the PM and was blocked by Black Lives Matter activists who forced the organizers to sign a list of their demands). The point is clear: gay activists aren't radicals anymore, they are part of the establishment, and so get targeted by radicals.

That's not quite the version I heard, though this is all second hand (so could be wrong)... but from what I understand BLM Toronto was the Pride parades Honoured Activist Group for 2016. I absolutely concur that gay pride is no longer particularly controversial - but I don't think characterizing what happened as "radicals muscling in on that celebration" and "gay activists aren't radical anymore". As I understand it actual gay activists (as opposed the likes of Wente and Blatchford and other such pearl clutchers) were fairly welcoming of BLM's demands.

Apparently one of BLM's demands was not to allow police to march in the Pride parade.  Which had the TPS outraged, saying they've been marching in Pride parades for years.  And now Pride is backtracking, saying they just signed the list of demands so they could get the parade going again.

[Jacob]

Apparently one of BLM's demands was not to allow police to march in the Pride parade.  Which had the TPS outraged, saying they've been marching in Pride parades for years.  And now Pride is backtracking, saying they just signed the list of demands so they could get the parade going again.

Seems like there's a bit of conversation about to be had about the Toronto police department and gay and black issues.

[Malthus]

I think gay rights are just a done deal in many places in Canada - so much so that it has become an acceptable small-c conservative position: it is now part of the status quo that the majority of conservatives want to preserve. It isn't 'progressive' in a sense any more - that is, it isn't something that needs to be made to happen, but rather something that has happened.

Doesn't mean homophobic bigotry is dead of course, only that as a political issue it is dead: there is no appetite to pass laws discriminating against gays. You know something is no longer a live issue when progress on that issue is celebrated in a ritual way by pretty well everyone, and radicals try to muscle in on that celebration to plug their own agendas - as regularly happens with Toronto's Pride Parade (this year, it was attended by the PM and was blocked by Black Lives Matter activists who forced the organizers to sign a list of their demands). The point is clear: gay activists aren't radicals anymore, they are part of the establishment, and so get targeted by radicals.

That's not quite the version I heard, though this is all second hand (so could be wrong)... but from what I understand BLM Toronto was the Pride parades Honoured Activist Group for 2016. I absolutely concur that gay pride is no longer particularly controversial - but I don't think characterizing what happened as "radicals muscling in on that celebration" and "gay activists aren't radical anymore". As I understand it actual gay activists (as opposed the likes of Wente and Blatchford and other such pearl clutchers) were fairly welcoming of BLM's demands.

The version I heard was that BLM interrupted the parade by staging a "sit in" in the middle of it, and only agreeing to move when the parade organizers signed their list of demands.

But I am only going by what I read in the news. Though this article includes slogans from BLM itself, all expressing anger at the parade organizers and satisfaction at how they caved.

Members of the Black Lives Matter Toronto group briefly halted the Pride parade today, holding up the marching for about 30 minutes.

Toronto Pride Parade 20160703
Members of Black Lives Matter Toronto, who were part of the parade as honoured guests, held up the marching for about 30 minutes. (Mark Blinch/Canadian Press)

The parade didn't re-start until after Pride Toronto executive director Mathieu Chantelois signed a document agreeing to the group's demands.

The organization was given the status of Honoured Group for the parade, which is the grand finale of Pride Month. It did not give Pride Toronto advance notice of their planned sit-in.

Their motive?

Alexandra Williams, a co-founder of Black Lives Matter Toronto, told CBC's Natasha Fatah that they held the sit-in because they wanted to hold Pride Toronto accountable for what she called "anti-blackness."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/pride-parade-toronto-1.3662823

The impression: the Parade organizers caved to a pressure group using disruption tactics - their attempts at appeasement including signing their demands, and making them "group of the year".

Of course, the organizers instantly stated that they only signed under duress and had no intention of complying with the most controversial demand (to exclude police floats, presumably on the BLM theory that police must be made the eternal enemy):

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/07/04/police-chief-waiting-on-pride-organizers-to-explain-parade-ban.html

[Malthus]

Apparently one of BLM's demands was not to allow police to march in the Pride parade.  Which had the TPS outraged, saying they've been marching in Pride parades for years.  And now Pride is backtracking, saying they just signed the list of demands so they could get the parade going again.

Seems like there's a bit of conversation about to be had about the Toronto police department and gay and black issues.

I get the impression BLM is simply out of tune: they are attempting to artificially import an us-against-them mentality from the US.

Doesn't fly well here, where the gay community has excellent relations with the cops - quite a change I may add from when I was a kid, and the two were natural enemies - what with bathhouse raids etc. Which, interestingly, Toronto's Chief of Police publicly apologized for ... oh, and he's Black. Not that having a Black police chief publicly stating that homophobic police action was wrong proves necessarily that Toronto cops don't have a problem with Blacks and/or gays, of course - but still, it's a reasonable indication of the way the wind is blowing.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/06/22/toronto-police-regret-1981-bathouse-raid-says-chief.html 

[dps]

the gay community has excellent relations with the cops - quite a change I may add from when I was a kid, and the two were natural enemies - what with bathhouse raids etc. Which, interestingly, Toronto's Chief of Police publicly apologized for

Why should he apologize?  Weren't they merely enforcing the law?  The police don't write the laws, after all, but it's their job to enforce the laws that are on the books.

[garbon]

the gay community has excellent relations with the cops - quite a change I may add from when I was a kid, and the two were natural enemies - what with bathhouse raids etc. Which, interestingly, Toronto's Chief of Police publicly apologized for

Why should he apologize?  Weren't they merely enforcing the law?  The police don't write the laws, after all, but it's their job to enforce the laws that are on the books.

Just use some basic googling. Toronto police did some fucked up shit (like many police did) back in the day.

Anyway, the police have always used discretion as to what crimes the track down. They don't have unlimited budgets so that can fully enforce everything.

[garbon]

I get the impression BLM is simply out of tune: they are attempting to artificially import an us-against-them mentality from the US.

Doesn't fly well here, where the gay community has excellent relations with the cops

I don't think in most major cities (where you are going to find the more sizable gay communities), you are going to find a cops vs gays thing these days either. Certainly never felt that in any of the major cities I lived in - more like the cops actually would keep us safe from cro-magnons about.

[Barrister]

Apparently one of BLM's demands was not to allow police to march in the Pride parade.  Which had the TPS outraged, saying they've been marching in Pride parades for years.  And now Pride is backtracking, saying they just signed the list of demands so they could get the parade going again.

Seems like there's a bit of conversation about to be had about the Toronto police department and gay and black issues.

You know this is something that bugs me about activists - they do something that is painfully and obviously wrong and justify it as "wanting to start a conversation".