[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Grey Fox]

It's not like there isn't already a McD's on every corner.

[Martinus]

It's not like there isn't already a McD's on every corner.

I never understood the problem with McDonald's or Starbucks francophones have. It's not like Brussels or Paris is a diverse wonderful environment full of little charming cafes and family-run diners - instead of McDonald's you just have some local "francophone" chain which serves equally shitty junk food and sports a logo disturbingly similar to that of McDonald's.

Edit: Ok, I noticed one difference: they advertise the food as halal. 

[Grey Fox]

I dont think anyone as a problem with McD around here. You know, except runny shit afterward,

[Josephus]

So all these 20-year-old bar maids and students who just got elected to Parliament--are they now set for life, gov't pensions till they die and all that?

[Grey Fox]

It takes 2 mandates for the pension, iirc.

They sure are having a good next 4 years at 157k/year.

[Oexmelin]

Edit: and another thing: being told one cannot have a legitimate opinion because I don't happen to be a citizen of Quebec gets old fast (doesn't help when that "opinion" is misidentfied).

I has nothing to do with not being a citizen of Quebec and everything to do with having one's sources skewed because of a) the language barrier and b) the unanimity of the tone of the anglo press regarding sovereignty.

[HVC]

My dad lived in Quebec for seven years during the 60's and 70's. French part of Montreal. Can I have a opinion by proxy?

Really though I find it odd that anglos can't have an opinion about Quebec sovereignty based on the " tone" of our press while franco's can gave an opinion on anglo opinions based on the "tone" of their press (if that sentence made sense lol). It's nit Quebec media isn't biased. 

[Oexmelin]

Viper made a good point above: when people voted *for* the Bloc, everyone was quick to assume that meant that they were in favour of sovereignty;

I don't think that has ever been fully the case, apart from the Bloc's own rhetoric, yet it is evident that one could draw a line between separatism and support for the Bloc. But even the Bloc had to carefully walk the line between saying they were there for Quebec's interests and recalling the theme of sovereignty: as always, Quebec's nationalism and support for sovereignty are two different, even if related, ideas.

That being said, as everyone has been quick to point to you, if you did a poll right now about sovereignty, it would still appear around 35-40% (and higher for francos). What polls have consistently showed for the last two years is a discouragement about the possibilities of it. In other words, 40% of the Quebec's population still want it, they are simply much less optimistic about it.   

And this is what has been expressed here. There has been a shifting in the priorities of what was getting expressed on the federal scene. It began with the Conservatives themselves, showing that one could be a federalist *or* a sovereignist and decide to express one's right-wing opinions in priority. The NDP relayed a similar message, and as the internal polls of the Bloc showed the rise of the NDP, the Bloc's leadership decided to save what they could, and recall their sovereignist base. Which didn't work, but, as always, the idea of independance isn't the property of one party.

The reason I am insisting is simply because what we have been hearing around is exactly that: sovereignist, still convinced, have been voting for the NDP for a variety of reasons, amongst which a desire to go beyond the deadlock in Ottawa, the desire to repatriate the debate within provincial grounds, a lassitude with the Bloc, and, indeed, a desire to build a coalition with the Rest of Canada. Being a sovereignist doesn't mean one gets disinterested in what is happening elsewhere in Canada.

[Oexmelin]

My dad lived in Quebec for seven years during the 60's and 70's. French part of Montreal. Can I have a opinion by proxy?

Really though I find it odd that anglos can't have an opinion about Quebec sovereignty based on the " tone" of our press while franco's can gave an opinion on anglo opinions based on the "tone" of their press (if that sentence made sense lol). It's nit Quebec media isn't biased.

I never claimed anything of the sort. On "Rest-of-Canadian" issues, Quebeckers are usually very badly informed (it is one of my pet peeve). What we do have, however, is a very divided press and political climate on the issue of independance and nationalism, which prevents us from displaying the same kind of unanimity *on that topic* that is displayed elsewhere in Canada. But I will be happy to be showed a pro-Quebec independance commentators in the English-Canadian press, or a positive treatment of Quebec (in general) in the Sun newspapers...

Which, of course, also doesn't mean that there aren't anyone who is sympathetic to this, or that, specific issue which arises in Quebec (I am thinking of Graham Fraser, for instance).

[Oexmelin]

I never understood the problem with McDonald's or Starbucks francophones have. It's not like Brussels or Paris is a diverse wonderful environment full of little charming cafes and family-run diners - instead of McDonald's you just have some local "francophone" chain which serves equally shitty junk food and sports a logo disturbingly similar to that of McDonald's.

Edit: Ok, I noticed one difference: they advertise the food as halal. 

1) I am not aware of a specific "francophone" problem about McDonald's.
2) Paris *is* "a diverse wonderful environment full of charming cafes and family-run diners". I would be surprised if international and local food chains comprise more than 10% of all the restaurants and cafés around.

[Fireblade]

Additionally, the only way Quebec is going to be independent is if they fight for it, because you know Harper is going to go all Ghaddafi on your asses. And the only way Quebec is going to win is if you import a bunch of Southerners to fight for you, because Duceppe and a bunch of 20 year old barmaids aren't going to win it for you. We Southerners will win, sure, but in exchange, we get to find out if you people really ARE the nègres blancs d'Amérique. We're going to find out if cotton can grow along the St. Lawrence, and you fuckers are going to pick it for us.

"What's your name, boy?"
"Jean-Pierre Bouchard!"
*WHIP*
"Your name is TOBEY, boy!"

[Ed Anger]

 

[Malthus]

Edit: and another thing: being told one cannot have a legitimate opinion because I don't happen to be a citizen of Quebec gets old fast (doesn't help when that "opinion" is misidentfied).

I has nothing to do with not being a citizen of Quebec and everything to do with having one's sources skewed because of a) the language barrier and b) the unanimity of the tone of the anglo press regarding sovereignty.

You really are taking the position that an Anglo *cannot* have a legitimate position on Quebec politics? Because all Anglos think in lockstep, due to unanimity of the Anglo press?   

I can just imagine what people would say if any Anglo made such a 'point' about Quebec folks.

In any event, I note you are carefully not addressing the actual point made upthread - that Duceppe's popularity appeared to plummet when he dragged seperatism into the campaign (contrary to the statement by the Parti Quebecois Leader Pauline Marois  that sovereignty was "not an issue" in the campaign. Thus, that there is a certain correlation between the defeat of the Bloc and tiredness with seperatism.

Or the fact that the post that was found so objectionable, was simply pointing out that there was some merit in one argument made by a guy who was, in fact, a Francophone Quebec person (thus entitled to have an opinion, even by your standards): that support for seperatism appears a one-way ratchet for some--support for seperatist parties is often read as a proxy for support for seperatism, whereas the reverse isn't the case.

But I suppose it is easier to make cheap ad hom arguments about how Anglos can't have opinions, than to actually answer arguments that happen to be made by Anglos.

[Josephus]

It takes 2 mandates for the pension, iirc.

They sure are having a good next 4 years at 157k/year.

Sounds like a good gig over all. I might try it next time. 

[Fireblade]

It takes 2 mandates for the pension, iirc.

They sure are having a good next 4 years at 157k/year.

Sounds like a good gig over all. I might try it next time. 

I noticed that the leader of the Green Party was born in America. Do you have to be a Canadian citizen to run for parliament..?