[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

Layton will no doubt resign afterward too.

Layton was likely going to resign no matter the result.  Its just too bad for him that he is going to go out this way.  He could have resigned as one of the more popular and electable leaders the NDP have had.  Instead he went along with Iggy on bringing the government down.  A decision that will go down in history as one of the great blunders in Canadian political history.

[Grey Fox]

Good one! Tony Clement has more charisma then Harper, ffs.

What I don't get is why charisma keeps getting brought up. Give me a leader who looks and sounds like a toad, but gets the job done--with one hand tied behind his back--over one who talks butterflies and  fluffy rainbows and never gets anywhere.

You're not electing a face. That's the GGs job.

Blame Television. Blame the internet for exposing you people to the American political races.

[Barrister]

Good one! Tony Clement has more charisma then Harper, ffs.

What I don't get is why charisma keeps getting brought up. Give me a leader who looks and sounds like a toad, but gets the job done--with one hand tied behind his back--over one who talks butterflies and  fluffy rainbows and never gets anywhere.

You're not electing a face. That's the GGs job.

I voted for charisma once, and got Stockwell Day.

I learned my lesson on that one.

[Josephus]

I think we are reading different newspapers. Here they are all owned by Asper.

I don't willingly read either of Toronto's National papers.

You are woefully behind the times.  Canwest declared bankruptcy and its assets were sold.  The Aspers don't own shit any longer.

To add to Buddha's problems when Asper did control Canwest, he was a huge Liberal supporter.

So even given Buddha's perception of media ownership I still have no idea how he thought the media is a "conservative mouthpiece" and I havent even mentioned the CBC yet.

I'm sorry to have bothered you guys with my stupidity. I'm done here now. Thanks for the good times in person though. I like all of you in real life.

But this political arguing is obviously not my bag. I've apparently never been right about anything and have no allies (interestingly in real life almost all my friends and acquaintances are anti-con/Harper.) Here, I feel like the only Canuck non Harperite, and I'm not politically astute enough to argue with a bunch of lawyers.

I'm going into lurker/my own threads mode for the near future. make fun of me all you want, but I'm not the enemy. I'm just someone who as the lawyers like to point out is ill informed and ignorant.

I feel the same as you 

But this thread has become pointless, which is why I stopped posting political stuff in here.  If you or I say anything it's all "rhetoric", yet they say Harper is the only trustworthy candidate and that's suddenly biblical fact.

[Josephus]

Layton will no doubt resign afterward too.

Layton was likely going to resign no matter the result.  Its just too bad for him that he is going to go out this way.  He could have resigned as one of the more popular and electable leaders the NDP have had.  Instead he went along with Iggy on bringing the government down. 

Again, you make it seem like it's a coup; which is exactly what Harper wants anybody who doesn't understand Canadian Politics to think.

The legitimacy of a prime minister to lead the governement,  resides in parliament's confidence in him. When that confidence is lost, the prime minister no longer has the legitimacy to rule. This is what happened here. The majority of Parliament no longer had confidence in Haper's ability to run the country. Just as you guys all ranted about how the proroguing was normal and "happens all the time"; this is the case with votes of no-confidence.

It is perfectly legitimate.

I'm also not so sure what you mean by Layton being one of the more "electable" leaders they've ever had. Every NDP leader, as far as I remember, has been elected.

[Josephus]

Good one! Tony Clement has more charisma then Harper, ffs.

What I don't get is why charisma keeps getting brought up. Give me a leader who looks and sounds like a toad, but gets the job done--with one hand tied behind his back--over one who talks butterflies and  fluffy rainbows and never gets anywhere.

You're not electing a face. That's the GGs job.

I don't think charisma means what you think it means. Hitler was pretty charismatic.

[Barrister]

Layton will no doubt resign afterward too.

Layton was likely going to resign no matter the result.  Its just too bad for him that he is going to go out this way.  He could have resigned as one of the more popular and electable leaders the NDP have had.  Instead he went along with Iggy on bringing the government down. 

Again, you make it seem like it's a coup; which is exactly what Harper wants anybody who doesn't understand Canadian Politics to think.

The legitimacy of a prime minister to lead the governement,  resides in parliament's confidence in him. When that confidence is lost, the prime minister no longer has the legitimacy to rule. This is what happened here. The majority of Parliament no longer had confidence in Haper's ability to run the country. Just as you guys all ranted about how the proroguing was normal and "happens all the time"; this is the case with votes of no-confidence.

It is perfectly legitimate.

I'm also not so sure what you mean by Layton being one of the more "electable" leaders they've ever had. Every NDP leader, as far as I remember, has been elected.

Nobody has said it is a "coup".  And you're right, votes of no confidence do happen somewhat routinely.

Where I disagree with you is that if Layton/Ignatieff vote no confidence in the government, and the Canadian electorate disagrees with them and returns Harper to power (in either a minority or majority) I do tend to think there are consequences for one or more of the opposition leaders.

And Layton is "electable" in that he polls better than any NDP leader since Broadbent, and in no surprise the NDP has done better under him than under any other elader since Broadbent.

I have no idea why CC thought he was likely to resign no matter what.  It's not like Layton has ever held down a regular job - I doubt he's going anywhere.

[Josephus]

I've no doubt that Iggy will go after this election. And that's a good thing for the Liberal party. Bring on Justin.

[crazy canuck]

But this thread has become pointless, which is why I stopped posting political stuff in here.  If you or I say anything it's all "rhetoric", yet they say Harper is the only trustworthy candidate and that's suddenly biblical fact.

Are you trying to suggest you havent engaged in political rhetoric in this thread.

Remember such nuggets as "[Harper has] already been found in contempt of parliament, imagine what he could do with a majority."

[crazy canuck]

Again, you make it seem like it's a coup; which is exactly what Harper wants anybody who doesn't understand Canadian Politics to think.

This wasnt at coup and I havent suggested it was.  What I have suggested is the opposition parties were foolish to force an election at this time.  That they had nothing to gain and everything (in the sense of a Conservative majority) to lose.

I have further suggested that it was foolish in the extreme for Layton to go along with the idea since it seemed to me at the outset of this election that the NDP had the most to lose.  The polling during the election shows that speculation was correct.

I suggest the reason you have not participated much is really what can and NDP supporter say in the circumstances?

[crazy canuck]

I've no doubt that Iggy will go after this election. And that's a good thing for the Liberal party. Bring on Justin.

The Conservatives would love to see another Trudeau as Liberal leader.  Particularly one as seemingly out of touch as Justin.  Remember his comment about rebuking condemnation of honour killings as being culturally insensitive?

As a Canadian I would hate to see it since it would guarrantee Conservative majorities into the future.  Having lived through more than a decade of a Federal government having no viable opposition I do not wish to live through it again.

[crazy canuck]

I have no idea why CC thought he was likely to resign no matter what.  It's not like Layton has ever held down a regular job - I doubt he's going anywhere.

His health.  Even before the election was on the horizon there was talk of him stepping down.

[Grallon]

I've no doubt that Iggy will go after this election. And that's a good thing for the Liberal party. Bring on Justin.

Sirrah please!  The Trudeaumania belong in the past, alongside everything else Trudeau ever did.

Justin should return to his teaching job and stop trying to fill shoes that are too big for him.



G.

[Neil]

Yeah, Justin doesn't really seem to have much to offer.  He's like the love child of W. Bush and Obama, in that he's only talked about as a leader because of who his father is, and Obama because he's an empty suit running on inoffensiveness and dreams.  At least guys like Bob Rae and Denis Coderre have actual achievements.

[Neil]

I have no idea why CC thought he was likely to resign no matter what.  It's not like Layton has ever held down a regular job - I doubt he's going anywhere.

His health.  Even before the election was on the horizon there was talk of him stepping down.

On the other hand, he's looked great in his commericals.  When he's not looking right into the camera, he looks much more dynamic.