[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Oexmelin]

Two recommendations about the Patriots, in English:

Allan Greer, The Patriots and the People: the Rebellion of 1837 in Rural Lower Canada, 1993.
Maxime Dagenais et Julien Mauduit (dir.), Revolutions Across Borders. Jacksonian America and the Canadian Rebellion, Montréal et Kingston, McGill-Queen's University Press, 2019

[viper37]

Guerre des Patriotes covers 1837-38 for Lower Canada, even though '38 was slightly different and more inspired by events worldwide.

Tell me more

seems I am mixing my dates, my bad.  It's something I heard on a documentary on the subject.
I do not recall much of this time period, what led to 1837 and its aftermath of 1839-1840 was much more studied.

Lord Durham was a racist, like most British of the times.  He considered French Canadians inferiors, just like any colonial governor of Africa or Australia would consider restless natives as inferior and in need of civilization.

To see him glorified in modern Canada is telling, considering the political correctness climate we live in.

[crazy canuck]

How is Durham glorified these days?

[Barrister]

How is Durham glorified these days?

Durham is an important figure in Canadian history.  His recommendation (which wasn't initially accepted) to introduce responsible government did help bring democracy and self-rule to Canada.  But what Viper said about his plans for French Canadians is quite true as well, and well known.

[crazy canuck]

Doesnt really answer my question.  How is he glorified.  Any school kid can tell you he wrote a report that was consequential.

[Malthus]

How is Durham glorified these days?

Durham is an important figure in Canadian history.  His recommendation (which wasn't initially accepted) to introduce responsible government did help bring democracy and self-rule to Canada.  But what Viper said about his plans for French Canadians is quite true as well, and well known.

Yes, exactly. The good: representative government. The bad: repression of the people of Quebec.

He's not "glorified" by anyone.

This is the common view as far as I know.

[viper37]

Doesnt really answer my question.  How is he glorified.  Any school kid can tell you he wrote a report that was consequential.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lambton,_1st_Earl_of_Durham#Legacy


Also:
People taking his name, english canadian history being taught the "good" and quickly skipping over the bad; I doubt the average school student would know he considered French Canadians inferiors in need of assimilation for their own good. 

Lord Durham has been lauded in Canadian history for his recommendation to introduce responsible government

Any British officer, Lord, politician who would have said the same about Blacks would never have had anything named in his honor today, there would be protests to remove anything public about him. 

Heck, English Quebecers complained about boulevard René Lévesque in Montreal (formerly Dorchester, now only for the English neighbourhood parts), and there are complaints right now that a square in Montreal might be renamed to honour Bernard Landry (former separatist Quebec premier, and former Cabinet Minister under Lévesque), suggesting instead his name be assigned to a... dog park.

I've yet to hear any kind of complaints about Durham though...  Ah, Canada, land of double standards

[crazy canuck]

I still don't understand how he is glorified.  It is an historical fact that he wrote a report to Parliament.  As said before, that fact is taught to every Canadian high school history class.  Your point is that you would prefer that intent to assimilate is stressed.

The failure to put the stress on the subject you would like is not glorifying him.  In BC we have a lot more history to go after that.  His report is more of a footnote for this Province.

[Malthus]

Doesnt really answer my question.  How is he glorified.  Any school kid can tell you he wrote a report that was consequential.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lambton,_1st_Earl_of_Durham#Legacy


Also:
People taking his name, english canadian history being taught the "good" and quickly skipping over the bad; I doubt the average school student would know he considered French Canadians inferiors in need of assimilation for their own good. 

Lord Durham has been lauded in Canadian history for his recommendation to introduce responsible government

Any British officer, Lord, politician who would have said the same about Blacks would never have had anything named in his honor today, there would be protests to remove anything public about him. 

Heck, English Quebecers complained about boulevard René Lévesque in Montreal (formerly Dorchester, now only for the English neighbourhood parts), and there are complaints right now that a square in Montreal might be renamed to honour Bernard Landry (former separatist Quebec premier, and former Cabinet Minister under Lévesque), suggesting instead his name be assigned to a... dog park.

I've yet to hear any kind of complaints about Durham though...  Ah, Canada, land of double standards

Hilariously, you don't read your own links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambton,_Quebec

[viper37]

The failure to put the stress on the subject you would like is not glorifying him.  In BC we have a lot more history to go after that.  His report is more of a footnote for this Province.

Passing under silence his bad accomplishments is a form of glorification.  Not insisting on the divisions he created, his racist thoughts, how they framed Canada for years to come (Imho, they still do, but that's another subject), is a form of glorification.  Naming things for him is a form of glorification.  An English Canadian coming to a wargame board with the nick "Lord Durham" is a form of glorification.

[viper37]

Doesnt really answer my question.  How is he glorified.  Any school kid can tell you he wrote a report that was consequential.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lambton,_1st_Earl_of_Durham#Legacy


Also:
People taking his name, english canadian history being taught the "good" and quickly skipping over the bad; I doubt the average school student would know he considered French Canadians inferiors in need of assimilation for their own good. 

Lord Durham has been lauded in Canadian history for his recommendation to introduce responsible government

Any British officer, Lord, politician who would have said the same about Blacks would never have had anything named in his honor today, there would be protests to remove anything public about him. 

Heck, English Quebecers complained about boulevard René Lévesque in Montreal (formerly Dorchester, now only for the English neighbourhood parts), and there are complaints right now that a square in Montreal might be renamed to honour Bernard Landry (former separatist Quebec premier, and former Cabinet Minister under Lévesque), suggesting instead his name be assigned to a... dog park.

I've yet to hear any kind of complaints about Durham though...  Ah, Canada, land of double standards

Hilariously, you don't read your own links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambton,_Quebec

I did read it.  You should have read where: Estrie.  Formerly known as Eastern Townships

English-speaking inhabitants remained a majority in the Townships until the 1870s.
[...]
The land there was controlled by three English seigneurs: Colonel Henry Caldwell had purchased what had been the Foucault Seigneurie, which ran along the Richelieu River and a little over the present day frontier; Colonel Gabriel Christie was seigneur of Noyan; and Thomas Dunn was seigneur of Saint-Armand. 

It's an area settled by Loyalists and British immigrants, mostly.  Hard to tell who lived where&when, but the city of Lambton is right in the area of later settlements.

[Malthus]

Doesnt really answer my question.  How is he glorified.  Any school kid can tell you he wrote a report that was consequential.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lambton,_1st_Earl_of_Durham#Legacy


Also:
People taking his name, english canadian history being taught the "good" and quickly skipping over the bad; I doubt the average school student would know he considered French Canadians inferiors in need of assimilation for their own good. 

Lord Durham has been lauded in Canadian history for his recommendation to introduce responsible government

Any British officer, Lord, politician who would have said the same about Blacks would never have had anything named in his honor today, there would be protests to remove anything public about him. 

Heck, English Quebecers complained about boulevard René Lévesque in Montreal (formerly Dorchester, now only for the English neighbourhood parts), and there are complaints right now that a square in Montreal might be renamed to honour Bernard Landry (former separatist Quebec premier, and former Cabinet Minister under Lévesque), suggesting instead his name be assigned to a... dog park.

I've yet to hear any kind of complaints about Durham though...  Ah, Canada, land of double standards

Hilariously, you don't read your own links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambton,_Quebec

I did read it.  You should have read where: Estrie.  Formerly known as Eastern Townships

English-speaking inhabitants remained a majority in the Townships until the 1870s.
[...]
The land there was controlled by three English seigneurs: Colonel Henry Caldwell had purchased what had been the Foucault Seigneurie, which ran along the Richelieu River and a little over the present day frontier; Colonel Gabriel Christie was seigneur of Noyan; and Thomas Dunn was seigneur of Saint-Armand. 

It's an area settled by Loyalists and British immigrants, mostly.  Hard to tell who lived where&when, but the city of Lambton is right in the area of later settlements.

Last I checked, 1870 was ... over a hundred years ago. Some things have happened in Quebec since. 

If you are peddling a theory that English Canadian's lack of historical awareness is somehow "proven" by stuff named after this guy in English Canada, that is hard to sustain when stuff in Quebec is also named after him.

What's the motto of Quebec on licence plates again?

Anyway, having historical names that are somewhat out of step with the times isn't exactly unusual in Canada ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika,_Ontario

Does this mean Ontarians glorify fascism? 

Point though is this: many historical figures are "lauded" for one thing (winning a battle, or in this case, boosting representative government) while "condemned" for other things. The fact that shit got named after them a hundred years ago, and is still named after them today, is no proof at all that the present-day inhabitants of wherever have completely forgotten or are willfully blind to the bad stuff these figures are rightfully "condemned" for. Innate unwillingness to change names is a more likely cause - like the good folks of Swastika, Ontario, who keep their old name despite the Nazis' attempt to ruin it for them. That probably explains why the present-day inhabitants of Lambton, Quebec - a province famous for "remembering" - keep their name: not because they approve of everything Lord Durham said in his famous/infamous Report, but rather, because the name has been there many decades and they are used to it.

Sometimes names are changed in light of current events (Bismark, Ontario disappeared during WW1), but it ain't consistent.

This slightly more complex reality often escapes partisans, though.

[Josephus]

I live in Durham region.

[Malthus]

In other news - Andrew Scheer has resigned as Conservative leader.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/andrew-scheer-stepping-down-as-conservative-party-leader-1.5393803

[viper37]

This slightly more complex reality often escapes partisans, though.

changing a city name in an area predominantly settled by British subjects, now English Canadians with a skin as thick as Donald Trump's for anykind of language/historical issues?  That's a winner in the current political climate.

Anyway, it's a 1200 people town.  It's quite a hassle to change a city name, believe me, I've went through it, I understand why people would prefer to keep it that way.