[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, there is a lot of buzz in the local media about how much BC ridings are going to matter this time around.  Anecdotally nobody came knocking at my door during the last election.  So far the Cons have visited twice.  The Libs once and a nice high school student for the Greens.  NDP are too busy worrying about keeping their own seats thne waste resources on a riding like mine.

The Cons and Libs are a bit surprised when I tell them my #1 issue is addressing climate change.  The high school student was pleased.

[Barrister]

Liberal campaign bus hits Liberal campaign plane.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-election-plane-damaged-in-victoria-after-media-bus-drives-under-wing-1.5280484

[crazy canuck]

You missed the best part BB, it was the left wing.  Reporters here can't help talking about it being an omen for what is going to happen to their vote in this province.

[HVC]

Plane just needs a "L" in its call sign (I think that's the term)

[Barrister]

Tell me peeps: is this "Hidden Agenda" kind of smear going to work?

Last week the Libs played a 15 year old video of Scheer voting against same-sex marriage.  Scheer replies they have no intention of re-opening gay marriage.  Once upon a time a number of Liberals, even prominent ones, did not support gay marriage.

Today they play video of a Conservative candidate speaking at a pro-life march.  Candidate doesn't apologize for her views, but Scheer says they have no intention of re-opening the abortion issue.  There were never a lot of them, but once upon a time there were such a thing as pro-life Liberals.

I have no doubt the Libs will continue to dig this kind of stuff up throughout the campaign.   Is it effective?

[Oexmelin]

It's effective at strengthening the base - i.e., the very same reason the Conservatives continue to show up at anti-choice events. In short, as long as the Conservative party appears to some candidates as a promising vehicle for anti-choice legislation, it gives grist to the mill for these Liberal attacks to work.

I'd venture it is less so for anti same-sex marriage, because my sentiment is that the case is closed, in this instance. It's there, and not going anywhere.

As a historian, I absolutely hate the tendency to dig up old views to indict a present candidate. If a candidate holds loathsome views *now*, that is something. But pretending no one changes their mind is ungenerous, and deleterious.

[crazy canuck]

Tell me peeps: is this "Hidden Agenda" kind of smear going to work?

Last week the Libs played a 15 year old video of Scheer voting against same-sex marriage.  Scheer replies they have no intention of re-opening gay marriage.  Once upon a time a number of Liberals, even prominent ones, did not support gay marriage.

Today they play video of a Conservative candidate speaking at a pro-life march.  Candidate doesn't apologize for her views, but Scheer says they have no intention of re-opening the abortion issue.  There were never a lot of them, but once upon a time there were such a thing as pro-life Liberals.

I have no doubt the Libs will continue to dig this kind of stuff up throughout the campaign.   Is it effective?

Gay marriage is an odd choice.  No one believes it should be made illegal.  But more to the point, in the same period of time there were a lot of Liberals who thought the law should only recognize marriage between a man and a woman. 

I heard some commentators locally comment that it was a sure sign the Liberals don't really have anything to pin on present day Scheer.  It makes the Libs look desperate.

But abortion is much more effective.  There is always the nagging concern on that issue.

[PRC]

Right or wrong, it's an effective strategy.  Scheer and his fellow Conservative candidates cannot bring themselves to say that they support these rights, instead they say they won't interfere with current law.  That leaves a seed of doubt about their agenda.  If in power they may make moves that will eventually lead to the suppression of these rights.  Something along the lines of Jason Kenney's GSA club stance, it may be a minor step, but it's still a step in the direction of that regressive social agenda.

As Oex referenced a candidate holding loathsome views right now... a Winnipeg area Conservative candidate in Manitoba, Cameron Ogilivie, has just resigned after his "secret" facebook account showing his anti-immigrant, anti-muslim, "proud to be white" views were discovered.   

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/conservative-candidate-for-winnipeg-north-steps-down-in-light-of-discriminatory-social-media-posts-1.4590997

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiet9zNvczkAhXHi54KHfI5Af4QFjAEegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpressprogress.ca%2Fproud-to-be-white-conservative-candidate-resigns-after-secret-anti-immigrant-facebook-account-discovered%2F&usg=AOvVaw2Oaz9gtm9W6X0KTRx9_tWw

https://election.ctvnews.ca/conservative-candidate-steps-down-after-discriminatory-social-media-posts-found-1.4590967

[Malthus]

Tell me peeps: is this "Hidden Agenda" kind of smear going to work?

Last week the Libs played a 15 year old video of Scheer voting against same-sex marriage.  Scheer replies they have no intention of re-opening gay marriage.  Once upon a time a number of Liberals, even prominent ones, did not support gay marriage.

Today they play video of a Conservative candidate speaking at a pro-life march.  Candidate doesn't apologize for her views, but Scheer says they have no intention of re-opening the abortion issue.  There were never a lot of them, but once upon a time there were such a thing as pro-life Liberals.

I have no doubt the Libs will continue to dig this kind of stuff up throughout the campaign.   Is it effective?

Gay marriage is an odd choice.  No one believes it should be made illegal.  But more to the point, in the same period of time there were a lot of Liberals who thought the law should only recognize marriage between a man and a woman. 

I heard some commentators locally comment that it was a sure sign the Liberals don't really have anything to pin on present day Scheer.  It makes the Libs look desperate.

But abortion is much more effective.  There is always the nagging concern on that issue.

I agree, though I think for both it looks like a tired, worn-out strategy - something dug up out of the playbook for lack of anything better. Those issues are ancient history in Canada now.

If I was the Liberals, I'd concentrate my smears on tapping into the general hatred of Trump and his ilk, pointing to Ford in Ontario as a fellow-traveller. Make the Cons deny it.

[Grey Fox]

Tell me peeps: is this "Hidden Agenda" kind of smear going to work?

Last week the Libs played a 15 year old video of Scheer voting against same-sex marriage.  Scheer replies they have no intention of re-opening gay marriage.  Once upon a time a number of Liberals, even prominent ones, did not support gay marriage.

Today they play video of a Conservative candidate speaking at a pro-life march.  Candidate doesn't apologize for her views, but Scheer says they have no intention of re-opening the abortion issue.  There were never a lot of them, but once upon a time there were such a thing as pro-life Liberals.

I have no doubt the Libs will continue to dig this kind of stuff up throughout the campaign.   Is it effective?

Gay marriage is an odd choice.  No one believes it should be made illegal.  But more to the point, in the same period of time there were a lot of Liberals who thought the law should only recognize marriage between a man and a woman. 

I heard some commentators locally comment that it was a sure sign the Liberals don't really have anything to pin on present day Scheer.  It makes the Libs look desperate.

But abortion is much more effective.  There is always the nagging concern on that issue.

I agree, though I think for both it looks like a tired, worn-out strategy - something dug up out of the playbook for lack of anything better. Those issues are ancient history in Canada now.

If I was the Liberals, I'd concentrate my smears on tapping into the general hatred of Trump and his ilk, pointing to Ford in Ontario as a fellow-traveller. Make the Cons deny it.

That's the thing, they are not ancient history. There is a significant population segment actively seeking to take away the right for women to choose for themselves & the Conservative party is 1) pandering to that group as it's base 2) members of the party agree with it 3) elected MPs & candidates do too.

The PC leaders keep saying that they won't reopen the law but that always leaves open the idea that they will, if the support for it is strong enough.

It's a lot like the PQ in Quebec & a 1st mandate referendum. We wont do it unless there is support for it, 'course.

[Malthus]

Tell me peeps: is this "Hidden Agenda" kind of smear going to work?

Last week the Libs played a 15 year old video of Scheer voting against same-sex marriage.  Scheer replies they have no intention of re-opening gay marriage.  Once upon a time a number of Liberals, even prominent ones, did not support gay marriage.

Today they play video of a Conservative candidate speaking at a pro-life march.  Candidate doesn't apologize for her views, but Scheer says they have no intention of re-opening the abortion issue.  There were never a lot of them, but once upon a time there were such a thing as pro-life Liberals.

I have no doubt the Libs will continue to dig this kind of stuff up throughout the campaign.   Is it effective?

Gay marriage is an odd choice.  No one believes it should be made illegal.  But more to the point, in the same period of time there were a lot of Liberals who thought the law should only recognize marriage between a man and a woman. 

I heard some commentators locally comment that it was a sure sign the Liberals don't really have anything to pin on present day Scheer.  It makes the Libs look desperate.

But abortion is much more effective.  There is always the nagging concern on that issue.

I agree, though I think for both it looks like a tired, worn-out strategy - something dug up out of the playbook for lack of anything better. Those issues are ancient history in Canada now.

If I was the Liberals, I'd concentrate my smears on tapping into the general hatred of Trump and his ilk, pointing to Ford in Ontario as a fellow-traveller. Make the Cons deny it.

That's the thing, they are not ancient history. There is a significant population segment actively seeking to take away the right for women to choose for themselves & the Conservative party is 1) pandering to that group as it's base 2) members of the party agree with it 3) elected MPs & candidates do too.

The PC leaders keep saying that they won't reopen the law but that always leaves open the idea that they will, if the support for it is strong enough.

It's a lot like the PQ in Quebec & a 1st mandate referendum. We wont do it unless there is support for it, 'course.

Of course a conservative party is where anti-abortion people are to be found (where else are they to go?) and of course if the general population supported it, then you'd see someone - and a conservative someone - capitalizing on that. Because in a democracy, that's what politicians do.

What makes it ancient history, is the fact that while it was a live controversy some time ago (together with gay marriage) the general population, by a significant majority, does not want abortion made illegal again. The poll figures are pretty decisive on that.

So while conservative types may pander to the anti-abortion folks, that's all it will be - pandering. Unless and until the general population decides it wants to remove abortion rights, which it shows no signs of doing.

This makes the issue a non-issue for now, except perhaps for reasons of Liberal electioneering. Voting Conservative won't cause abortion rights to be repealed, because the Conservatives would have to have rocks in their heads to repeal them, or even to raise the issue - a highly controversial and unpopular position is not what the party will likely take up, assuming it has any sense.

[crazy canuck]

And just when one might be tempted to think the Cons are acting reasonably there is this from the Globe:

The Conservative Party is distributing flyers that suggest university professors are agents of left-wing indoctrination.

The party flyers were spotted on the York University campus in Toronto this week. The flyers bear an image of Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer and the words, "Because you can only hear the same left-wing talking points from your professors so many times."

[Malthus]

And just when one might be tempted to think the Cons are acting reasonably there is this from the Globe:

The Conservative Party is distributing flyers that suggest university professors are agents of left-wing indoctrination.

The party flyers were spotted on the York University campus in Toronto this week. The flyers bear an image of Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer and the words, "Because you can only hear the same left-wing talking points from your professors so many times."

I don't see that as outrageous. It is hardly a secret that faculty at universities in general, and York in particular, are left-leaning (in the humanities at least). It is also no secret that this lean comes out in what they teach - it would be odd if it did not.

Why the Conservatives think this would be an effective strategy I don't know - the students are in general even more left-leaning than the faculty!

[Barrister]

And just when one might be tempted to think the Cons are acting reasonably there is this from the Globe:

The Conservative Party is distributing flyers that suggest university professors are agents of left-wing indoctrination.

The party flyers were spotted on the York University campus in Toronto this week. The flyers bear an image of Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer and the words, "Because you can only hear the same left-wing talking points from your professors so many times."

I don't see that as outrageous. It is hardly a secret that faculty at universities in general, and York in particular, are left-leaning (in the humanities at least). It is also no secret that this lean comes out in what they teach - it would be odd if it did not.

Why the Conservatives think this would be an effective strategy I don't know - the students are in general even more left-leaning than the faculty!

I'm not sure, on average that they are - rather that it's just the more vocal / activist ones tend to be more left wing.

CC: I would imagine these flyers were put out by the campus club, not the actual party or campaign.

[Josephus]

And just when one might be tempted to think the Cons are acting reasonably

when would that be?