[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

Oh here's a fun story from 2016

The facts of the case are impressive. From 2004 to 2011 former SNC executives, operating out of the office at least two successive CEOs, disguised $118,000 in donations to federal political parties by falsifying names, inventing expenses or bonuses, and spreading donations across several employees, and sometimes to members of employees' families.

About $8,000 of the money went to the federal Conservatives, who were in power for most of those seven years. Since old habits seem to die hard, roughly $110,000 went to the Liberals.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/09/09/wells.html

[Valmy]

$118,000 over 8 years? Damn were they also sneaking extra paperclips to federal political parties?

I guess I should be envious that this scale of corruption constitutes a scandal.

[Grey Fox]

We really should use House of Commons naming convention! This JWR won't do.

[Malthus]

$118,000 over 8 years? Damn were they also sneaking extra paperclips to federal political parties?

I guess I should be envious that this scale of corruption constitutes a scandal.

Big corruption scandals in Canada tend to erupt over hilariously trivial sums of cash.

[PDH]

$118,000 over 8 years? Damn were they also sneaking extra paperclips to federal political parties?

I guess I should be envious that this scale of corruption constitutes a scandal.

Big corruption scandals in Canada tend to erupt over hilariously trivial sums of cash.

Is that 118,000 in Canadian dollars?  That is like $47.50 in real money.

[Grey Fox]

Hey PDH, can I have a 50 of Real money? I am sure you can spare it.

[Barrister]

Hey PDH, can I have a 50 of Real money? I am sure you can spare it.

Here you go GF:

[PDH]

I cashed my money in for Zimbabwe dollars back when I got divorced.  They have to pay off some day.

[dps]

I cashed my money in for Zimbabwe dollars back when I got divorced.  They have to pay off some day.

You had money after a divorce?

[PDH]

I cashed my money in for Zimbabwe dollars back when I got divorced.  They have to pay off some day.

You had money after a divorce?

10 million in Z Dollars!

[crazy canuck]

So JWR resigns from cabinet today.

So here's the thing CC: if this "JWR was pressured to instruct PPSC to drop charges against SNC Lavelin" was a non-story, and the true reason had to do with JWR's intentions regarding first nations people, it would be easy enough to squash the story.  All the government has to do is waive privilege regarding SNC Lavelin and JWR will happily tell the press she was not pressured in any way.

But Trudeau hasn't done so.  Libs have gone into silent mode, hoping the story will go away (which it doesn't look like it is).

And by the way, the whole concept of non-prosecution agreements was only brought into law a year ago when such a provision was included in a government omnibus bill.  The speculation is (which has no hard evidence to support) was that it was included specifically for the benefit of SNC Lavelin.

So think your way through that BB.  If the ex minister had been pressured to instruct prosecutors to provide the deferred deal, why did she wait this long to resign from cabinet?  As for the amendment to the Act to allow the non prosecution agreement, the outlier is that it was not included in the first place.  It is included in the legislation of other countries claiming this kind of extra territorial jurisdiction.

Who "leaked" this version of reality?.  What is the political game being played here?  It is all pretty obvious when you read her public statement when she was shuffled along with the new directives she issued regarding how aboriginal issues would be litigated as she was leaving. The facts are a lot more mundane than the prospect of a conspiracy.  And so the trees continue to obscure the ability to see the forest.

[Barrister]

So JWR resigns from cabinet today.

So here's the thing CC: if this "JWR was pressured to instruct PPSC to drop charges against SNC Lavelin" was a non-story, and the true reason had to do with JWR's intentions regarding first nations people, it would be easy enough to squash the story.  All the government has to do is waive privilege regarding SNC Lavelin and JWR will happily tell the press she was not pressured in any way.

But Trudeau hasn't done so.  Libs have gone into silent mode, hoping the story will go away (which it doesn't look like it is).

And by the way, the whole concept of non-prosecution agreements was only brought into law a year ago when such a provision was included in a government omnibus bill.  The speculation is (which has no hard evidence to support) was that it was included specifically for the benefit of SNC Lavelin.

So think your way through that BB.  If the ex minister had been pressured to instruct prosecutors to provide the deferred deal, why did she wait this long to resign from cabinet?  As for the amendment to the Act to allow the non prosecution agreement, the outlier is that it was not included in the first place.  It is included in the legislation of other countries claiming this kind of extra territorial jurisdiction.

Who "leaked" this version of reality?.  What is the political game being played here?  It is all pretty obvious when you read her public statement when she was shuffled along with the new directives she issued regarding how aboriginal issues would be litigated as she was leaving. The facts are a lot more mundane than the prospect of a conspiracy.  And so the trees continue to obscure the ability to see the forest.

No need to invent a conspiracy - this instead is fairly mundane corruption and influence peddling.  What it appears to be is that SNC has paid the Libs a lot of money over the years, have made it very clear they want a non prosecution agreement (the President has repeated this numerous times), so SNC met a couple of dozen times were various Liberal bigwigs, which caused the PMO to exert some degree of pressure on the AG to implement a non prosecution agreement.  And such pressure was improper as such decisions should be left up to the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Why didn't she resign from cabinet?  Presumably because she still desires a political career of some sort or another.  The more interesting question is why did she resign now, and not before the story broke?  It seems clear that there's been more of a break down in the relationship between JWR and Trudeau.  Just yesterday Trudeau was saying how he still had faith in her, and how JWR still sitting in cabinet "should speak for itself".  And then 24 hours later she's no longer in cabinet.  And her resignation letter thanked many people, but not Trudeau of her cabinet colleagues.

Maybe you're right CC, and this is all some kind of giant swerve.  But you're literally the only person I've heard with that perspective.  In all the commentary I've read, and people I've spoken to in real life, you're the only one who says this is all about her position on indigenous issues.

[Oexmelin]

I think it is possible to understand this as the sort of ordinary corruption of our contemporary democracy rather than an exceptional conspiracy. That the leadership of a big business like SNC Lavallin contributed to the Liberals, and had privileged access to the PM, or the Cabinet, to push their agenda, has unfortunately become par for the course in most major parties. Where this seems different is that it seemed to have been expressed on a judicial case, which has historically enjoyed greater separation - and therefore, greater legitimacy for a Minister to chart her own course - than legislative agenda.

[Barrister]

Another interesting twist is in the ongoing Admiral Norman case.  The Admiral is charged with leaking cabinet secrets, and the defence has been alleging political interference for a long time.  Well yesterday in a court hearing defence filed a heavily redacted set of notes of a meeting between the PPSC Prosecutor involved in the case, and the lead lawyer for the Privy Council Office.  The notes were heavily redacted for "litigation privilege".

The thing is - why the hell would the Prosecutor involved be talking to the PCO at all!

[crazy canuck]

So JWR resigns from cabinet today.

So here's the thing CC: if this "JWR was pressured to instruct PPSC to drop charges against SNC Lavelin" was a non-story, and the true reason had to do with JWR's intentions regarding first nations people, it would be easy enough to squash the story.  All the government has to do is waive privilege regarding SNC Lavelin and JWR will happily tell the press she was not pressured in any way.

But Trudeau hasn't done so.  Libs have gone into silent mode, hoping the story will go away (which it doesn't look like it is).

And by the way, the whole concept of non-prosecution agreements was only brought into law a year ago when such a provision was included in a government omnibus bill.  The speculation is (which has no hard evidence to support) was that it was included specifically for the benefit of SNC Lavelin.

So think your way through that BB.  If the ex minister had been pressured to instruct prosecutors to provide the deferred deal, why did she wait this long to resign from cabinet?  As for the amendment to the Act to allow the non prosecution agreement, the outlier is that it was not included in the first place.  It is included in the legislation of other countries claiming this kind of extra territorial jurisdiction.

Who "leaked" this version of reality?.  What is the political game being played here?  It is all pretty obvious when you read her public statement when she was shuffled along with the new directives she issued regarding how aboriginal issues would be litigated as she was leaving. The facts are a lot more mundane than the prospect of a conspiracy.  And so the trees continue to obscure the ability to see the forest.

No need to invent a conspiracy - this instead is fairly mundane corruption and influence peddling.  What it appears to be is that SNC has paid the Libs a lot of money over the years, have made it very clear they want a non prosecution agreement (the President has repeated this numerous times), so SNC met a couple of dozen times were various Liberal bigwigs, which caused the PMO to exert some degree of pressure on the AG to implement a non prosecution agreement.  And such pressure was improper as such decisions should be left up to the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Why didn't she resign from cabinet?  Presumably because she still desires a political career of some sort or another.  The more interesting question is why did she resign now, and not before the story broke?  It seems clear that there's been more of a break down in the relationship between JWR and Trudeau.  Just yesterday Trudeau was saying how he still had faith in her, and how JWR still sitting in cabinet "should speak for itself".  And then 24 hours later she's no longer in cabinet.  And her resignation letter thanked many people, but not Trudeau of her cabinet colleagues.

Maybe you're right CC, and this is all some kind of giant swerve.  But you're literally the only person I've heard with that perspective.  In all the commentary I've read, and people I've spoken to in real life, you're the only one who says this is all about her position on indigenous issues.

I think the comments of her father yesterday are instructive.  He said that her demotion from Justice Minister was a slap in the face and a betrayal of Trudeau's commitment to reconciliation.  It is not controversial to suggest many First Nations leaders (and particularly in this province) felt the same way when she was shuffled.  If you ever get around to reading the link I gave you, you will see that as Justice Minister she was planning to implement profound changes to the way Canada would defend itself against aboriginal claims.

What is interesting from a political point of view is that it now seems obvious that Trudeau will not state why she was shuffled.  He desperately wants to cling to the narrative of being all things to all people.  He can't publicly say that she was implementing policy the government disagreed with.  Instead he comes up with a lame press conference in which he sounds like a jilted lover who is confused why the relationship has ended.

If the theory that the Minister was shuffled because of a refusal to go along with the suggestion that she allow a prosecution agreement, then that will also likely put the former Minister in a bad light.  If she believed that was the reason, she should have immediately resigned her new post.  It would have been reasonable for her not to say anything while still Minister of Justice because she justifiably would have thought she resisted the pressure.  Her problem will likely be that it was only after the story appeared in the Globe that she took action to resign.

I think this episode is going to have both of them being worse off, but Trudeau most of all.  More than ever he really seems out of his depth.