[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[derspiess]

  Is he Bernier than our Bernie??

[Barrister]

Realized today was the deadline for buying a Conservative Party membership in time for the vote.  I am again a member. 

Barring something unforeseen, I'll be voting for Bernier.  Endorsements don't usually sway me, but I was leaning that way, and when Steven Fletcher (former MP and cabinet minister alongside Bernier, as well as an old friend from university days) endorsed Bernier I decided he was my guy.

Birthday present to yourself?

Why, I suppose that it was! :

[Barrister]

Is he Bernier than our Bernie??

I know you're just joking around, but Maxime Bernier is the guy.  He's run on a policy of economic deregulation, cutting taxes, that sort of thing.

The big (yuge) knock against him was a bizarre story from 10 years ago.  He was dating a girl who had had prior romantic relationships with Hells Angels members (plus she wore a very low-cut dress to an official swearing in).  Bernier then left some highly classified documents at her house one day.  He ultimately had to resign from cabinet over the scandal, although he slowly worked his way back in over time.

[Jacob]

Realized today was the deadline for buying a Conservative Party membership in time for the vote.  I am again a member. 

Barring something unforeseen, I'll be voting for Bernier.  Endorsements don't usually sway me, but I was leaning that way, and when Steven Fletcher (former MP and cabinet minister alongside Bernier, as well as an old friend from university days) endorsed Bernier I decided he was my guy.

Tell me about Bernier, please

[crazy canuck]

Realized today was the deadline for buying a Conservative Party membership in time for the vote.  I am again a member. 

Barring something unforeseen, I'll be voting for Bernier.  Endorsements don't usually sway me, but I was leaning that way, and when Steven Fletcher (former MP and cabinet minister alongside Bernier, as well as an old friend from university days) endorsed Bernier I decided he was my guy.

Tell me about Bernier, please

He has a lot of support from the Libertarian wing of the party and a lot of support in Alberta.  Knowing BB's politics I can see why BB is a big fan.  Here is an opinion piece from the Globe about Bernier.

Is Maxime Bernier too principled to win Tory race?
KONRAD YAKABUSKI
The Globe and Mail
Published Monday, Mar. 20, 2017 5:00AM EDT
Last updated Monday, Mar. 20, 2017 7:53AM EDT


You've got to hand it to Maxime Bernier. The Quebec MP became a laughingstock after his premature turn as foreign affairs minister under Stephen Harper ended because his then-girlfriend turned out to have ties to a motorcycle gang and access to his classified briefing notes.

By Canadian standards, that should have been the end of Mr. Bernier's political career. Unlike Americans, we're not typically given to redemption stories. Yet, it's hard not to qualify the astonishingly strong campaign Mr. Bernier has run for the Conservative leadership as just that.

He has started what amounts to a movement of libertarian Tories, who it turns out are more numerous and passionate than anyone could have expected. Granted, there is a certain sophomoric aspect to his all-markets-all-the-time boosterism. Many of his diehard followers are still too young to understand that real-world free markets aren't always pretty, nor all that matters.


Still, Mr. Bernier has exposed the wishy-washiness of his main leadership rivals by taking principled stands on issues that should be central to Canadian conservatism. He'd end supply management in the dairy sector, deregulate an oligopolistic telecom sector, stop subsidizing Bombardier and reform an equalization program that he calls a "poverty trap" for have-not provinces.

Mr. Harper talked the talk of a free-market purist before becoming prime minister, too, but walked the walk of a pragmatist in government. Mr. Bernier, however, is not the tactician Mr. Harper was. He is a conviction politician, a true believer since he developed a passion for libertarian causes during the epic free-trade debate of the late 1980s. He's preached the same gospel unwaveringly ever since.

Yes, as industry minister in the Harper cabinet, he failed to open up the telecom sector to foreign competition and signed off on loans to Bombardier. But one can argue that his clout as a rookie minister was limited and his stint at Industry was too short to effect radical change.

He insists things would be different if he became prime minister – which is why the prospect of him winning the Tory leadership has put the "cartels" he loves to denounce on a war footing.

It's not for nothing that, soon after his arrival in Ottawa in 2006, Mr. Bernier came to be known as "the Albertan from Quebec." His views have long been more aligned with those of the frontier West, hostile to state intervention and adoring of private property, than those of his home province, where the state is seen as the solution to most problems that exist in society. And why not? State intervention has preserved the dominance of Quebec's dairy farmers and more than once saved Bombardier.

If Mr. Bernier wins the leadership, he can thank Alberta. If he loses, he can blame Quebec.

And Quebec's disproportionate weight in choosing the next Tory leader could very well cost him the top Tory job. Leadership rivals Andrew Scheer and Steven Blaney, in particular, have exploited Mr. Bernier's opposition to supply management to sign up new Tory members among Quebec dairy farmers. According to a recent Radio-Canada report, they're aiming to recruit as many as 2,000 anti-Bernier farmers before the March 28 cut-off for selling memberships.

Since each federal riding has equal weight in choosing the leader – whether the riding association has five members or 5,000 – the new Quebec recruits could easily skew the vote. Most Tory riding associations in Quebec can comfortably fit into a Tim Hortons, if not the drive-thru.

Four of Quebec's 12 Tory MPs have lined up behind Mr. Scheer, principally because of Mr. Bernier's stand on supply management. That policy also played a decisive role in star MP Gérard Deltell's move to back Erin O'Toole, whom he called "a pragmatic man who will succeed in uniting Conservatives, attract Canadians to our party and soon govern the country properly."

The implicit message is clear: Mr. Bernier's libertarian extremism would be a barrier to building the big tent the Tories need to win an election. His economic policies would divide the country and turn Quebeckers against the Conservatives even more than they already are.

That is all very true, which is why Tories would be probably mistaken to indulge their libertarian impulses by choosing Mr. Bernier, though not as wrong as they'd be if they chose the cookie-dough flavour-of-the-month that is Kevin O'Leary. At least Mr. Bernier delivers more than empty calories.

[Jacob]

Thanks CC.

[Grey Fox]

Very Accurate.

I saw that report about Dairy farmers joining the CP. Some of them were dumbfounded about what they were doing.

[Valmy]

Feeling the Bern seems to have almost a polar opposite meaning in Canada.

[Barrister]

Thanks CC.

Take the Globe's mostly big-L Liberal bias out of it, and the piece is generally accurate.  He's running on economic issues (which is probably my main issue) on a deregulate, free-trade, get the government out of the markets.  All of which is music to my ears.

I recognize that he's probably not going to do much, even most, of what he says.  It's one thing to promise to end supply-side management when running for leader - it's another to run for PM on that same platform.  But it is refreshing to hear a politician run against the accepted political wisdom of his own province (I give mad props to Michael Chong running on a pro-carbon tax platform for the same reason, but he appears to have little support and little chance to win).  And you hope Bernier will follow throw on at least some of what he's promising.  Trudeau is breaking several promises but isn't being significantly hurt in the polls - it'll take a Trumpian complete abandonment of one's own platform to really hurt a politician.

[crazy canuck]

Thanks CC.

Take the Globe's mostly big-L Liberal bias out of it, and the piece is generally accurate.  He's running on economic issues (which is probably my main issue) on a deregulate, free-trade, get the government out of the markets.  All of which is music to my ears.

What Big L bias are you talking about?  He is supported by the Libertarian wing of the party - at least in these parts.  I assume the same holds true in the rest of the country. 

Also, isn't he the guy you identified as using the dog whistle?

[Barrister]

Thanks CC.

Take the Globe's mostly big-L Liberal bias out of it, and the piece is generally accurate.  He's running on economic issues (which is probably my main issue) on a deregulate, free-trade, get the government out of the markets.  All of which is music to my ears.

What Big L bias are you talking about?  He is supported by the Libertarian wing of the party - at least in these parts.  I assume the same holds true in the rest of the country. 

Also, isn't he the guy you identified as using the dog whistle?

The Globe and Mail's generally Liberal leanings.  I take that to be a negative piece on Bernier.

And no, I don't think so.

[crazy canuck]

Thanks CC.

Take the Globe's mostly big-L Liberal bias out of it, and the piece is generally accurate.  He's running on economic issues (which is probably my main issue) on a deregulate, free-trade, get the government out of the markets.  All of which is music to my ears.

What Big L bias are you talking about?  He is supported by the Libertarian wing of the party - at least in these parts.  I assume the same holds true in the rest of the country. 

Also, isn't he the guy you identified as using the dog whistle?

The Globe and Mail's generally Liberal leanings.  I take that to be a negative piece on Bernier.

And no, I don't think so.

You mean the paper that endorsed the Conservatives during the last election 

attacking the media because you don't think they share your ideology is a long used intellectually lazy tactic.  But frankly in the age of Trump I don't have any patience for it.  If the article said something inaccurate then state what the inaccuracy was and why you think it was inaccurate.

What don't you think is so?  That you posted about him dog whistling with the red and blue pill, or that he is supported by libertarians. or both?

[Barrister]

You mean the paper that endorsed the Conservatives during the last election 

attacking the media because you don't think they share your ideology is a long used intellectually lazy tactic.  But frankly in the age of Trump I don't have any patience for it.  If the article said something inaccurate then state what the inaccuracy was and why you think it was inaccurate.

What don't you think is so?  That you posted about him dog whistling with the red and blue pill, or that he is supported by libertarians. or both?

I don't frankly care what you don't have patience for.  Calling out a paper's bias is not the same as proclaiming it "fake news".  The Globe has a different perspective than the National Post, or the Toronto Star.

I said the article was generally accurate.  It was the editorializing liberties it took throughout I objected to.  For example

Granted, there is a certain sophomoric aspect to his all-markets-all-the-time boosterism. Many of his diehard followers are still too young to understand that real-world free markets aren't always pretty, nor all that matters.

and

That is all very true, which is why Tories would be probably mistaken to indulge their libertarian impulses by choosing Mr. Bernier

I posted about Bernier using the "red pill" in some online attempts at memes in order to try and spark a conversation.  I for one did not see it at all as an attempt to "dog whistle" anyone.  If I recall correctly the ad was likening taking the red pill to seeing that equalization is a scam or some such.

[crazy canuck]

You mean the paper that endorsed the Conservatives during the last election 

attacking the media because you don't think they share your ideology is a long used intellectually lazy tactic.  But frankly in the age of Trump I don't have any patience for it.  If the article said something inaccurate then state what the inaccuracy was and why you think it was inaccurate.

What don't you think is so?  That you posted about him dog whistling with the red and blue pill, or that he is supported by libertarians. or both?

I don't frankly care what you don't have patience for.  Calling out a paper's bias is not the same as proclaiming it "fake news".  The Globe has a different perspective than the National Post, or the Toronto Star.

I said the article was generally accurate.  It was the editorializing liberties it took throughout I objected to.  For example

Granted, there is a certain sophomoric aspect to his all-markets-all-the-time boosterism. Many of his diehard followers are still too young to understand that real-world free markets aren't always pretty, nor all that matters.

and

That is all very true, which is why Tories would be probably mistaken to indulge their libertarian impulses by choosing Mr. Bernier

I posted about Bernier using the "red pill" in some online attempts at memes in order to try and spark a conversation.  I for one did not see it at all as an attempt to "dog whistle" anyone.  If I recall correctly the ad was likening taking the red pill to seeing that equalization is a scam or some such.

BB, you said yourself that you could put it down to a clumsy dog whistle, and I agree with you.  You said,

I know the "red pill" = MRA stuff from online, but just how widespread is that kind of knowledge.  I'm pretty sure Mrs B, who is online every day but mostly on Facebook (and not talking politics) wouldn't have a clue.

So should I put you down in the "clumsy dog-whistle" category for Bernier?

Now that you are fully on board the Bernier train you might have repressed that insight you had into his campaign.  It certainly supports the view the the Globe opinion of him being sophomoric.  That and simplistic policies designed to attract the libertarians among the Conservative membership.

[Barrister]

Umm, I said "So should I put you down in the "clumsy dog-whistle" category for Bernier?", trying to paraphrase your views, not mine.