[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Sheilbh]

You might like to think that voters aren't going to take into account the fact that the current leader of the conservative party has never done anything with his life other than be a politician, but I've have an inkling that that's actually going to be an election issue if the liberals manage to Select a leader that actually has a little bit of real world experience.

I think you're right - but I'm not sure voters necessarily see former investment banker and central banker currently running an asset fund as real world experience or experience outside the same sort of band of experience as politics.

[HVC]

Yes, no one the general public loves more than bankers.  Maybe only insurance CEO's

[crazy canuck]

You might like to think that voters aren't going to take into account the fact that the current leader of the conservative party has never done anything with his life other than be a politician, but I've have an inkling that that's actually going to be an election issue if the liberals manage to Select a leader that actually has a little bit of real world experience.

I think you're right - but I'm not sure voters necessarily see former investment banker and central banker currently running an asset fund as real world experience or experience outside the same sort of band of experience as politics.

I suppose that is because you don't know the narratives surrounding him within Canada.

[Neil]

OK, so maybe professionalism is something that politicians are trying to move away from, although I'd argue that it's not so much professionalism as being inauthentic that is their real target.  But surely little playground nicknames isn't the way to do it? 

If 'the way that Trump does things' is going to be the playbook for the Conservative Party of Canada, I'm going to get off the bus.  Mind you, it's not like there are any better options.  The Liberal Party really doesn't align with my values, the NDP doesn't want the votes of people like me, the People's Party are Green Party are both vanity cults of two of the worst leaders in the history of Canadian politics.

[Barrister]

Every election I have ever seen the candidates provide the voters a brochure which sets out their background with an emphasis on the reasons why the voters should elect them. I'm not sure what happens in the writings where you have been involved, but I would be very surprised if the same thing doesn't occur there.

You might like to think that voters aren't going to take into account the fact that the current leader of the conservative party has never done anything with his life other than be a politician, but I've have an inkling that that's actually going to be an election issue if the liberals manage to Select a leader that actually has a little bit of real world experience.

Campaign literature is much like campaign lawn signs.  If you don't have it it will be conspicuous by its absence - but they do nothing to actually win an election.

[Josephus]

Yes, no one the general public loves more than bankers.  Maybe only insurance CEO's

and lawyers

[Barrister]

So I was thinking... ()

I said before voters don't care about resumes.  I still think that's mostly true, but there was one time where they did - Michael Ignatieff.  The Conservatives launched a series of brutal and effective ads against him with tag lines of "Just Visiting" and "He didn't come back for you".

For Ignatieff though - the substance of the ads wasn't exactly his resume.  It didn't talk about him being a Harvard professor, or a professor in Europe - it was just that he'd lived most of his life outside of Canada.

(It's perhaps worth noting that after his defeat Ignatieff returned to Harvard)

So will those kind of attacks work against Carney?  He has spent a fair chunk of his life outside of Canada (studied at Harvard and Oxford, worked at Goldman Sachs, Governor of the Bank of England, not sure where he lives now) - but he did spend a fair chunk of his professional life in Canada as well, which Ignatieff had not.

I still think though that when it comes to political leaders Canadians do not care about their resumes.  If they did, Ignatieff should have beat Harper (who had also spent his entire life in politics), or O'Toole should have beat Trudeau (O'Toole being the military veteran).

Personally though - I think "politics" should be seen as a profession like any other.  Something you have to gain experience in, earn your stripes in.  You can't really just come and parachute in to the top job.  The only time I can think of that happening was Brian Mulroney - and I think that is a cautionary tale.  I'll admit though that this is an unpopular opinion, and "career politician" is seen as a negative.

[Grey Fox]

I think that attack line will once again work. Carney is an outsider* to everything but government civil service, the worse kind of Politicians. Like Ignatieff, he's just visiting. Jim Carrey would also make a bad LPC leader. I wonder why no one is proposing that.

*I know I said he's not an outsider. His governorships of 2 Central Banks is what makes him an Insider.

[crazy canuck]

Mind you, it's not like there are any better options.  The Liberal Party really doesn't align with my values, the NDP doesn't want the votes of people like me, the People's Party are Green Party are both vanity cults of two of the worst leaders in the history of Canadian politics.

This is the situation a lot of Canadians are in.  To the extent my friends talk about politics (of all political stripes) this is the common lament - Who can we vote for?  There are currently no good options.

[crazy canuck]

Every election I have ever seen the candidates provide the voters a brochure which sets out their background with an emphasis on the reasons why the voters should elect them. I'm not sure what happens in the writings where you have been involved, but I would be very surprised if the same thing doesn't occur there.

You might like to think that voters aren't going to take into account the fact that the current leader of the conservative party has never done anything with his life other than be a politician, but I've have an inkling that that's actually going to be an election issue if the liberals manage to Select a leader that actually has a little bit of real world experience.

Campaign literature is much like campaign lawn signs.  If you don't have it it will be conspicuous by its absence - but they do nothing to actually win an election.

All other things being equal, I agree they usually don't matter.  Except when there is a dearth of people running who are good candidates.  Like now.

[Barrister]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-leadership-foreign-interference-risk-1.7424035

Liberals plan no changes to their leadership campaign rules despite recent allegations of foreign interference in Conservative leadership race.

Liberal "supporters" are eligible to vote for leader.  Canadian citizenship is not required - but to be fair is not required by any of the major parties.  Conservatives and NDP do require at least permanent resident status - but not the Liberals.  Anyone who "ordinarily reside in Canada" is eligible, and would seem to include international students and temporary foreign workers.

[crazy canuck]

So I was thinking... ()

I said before voters don't care about resumes.  I still think that's mostly true, but there was one time where they did - Michael Ignatieff.  The Conservatives launched a series of brutal and effective ads against him with tag lines of "Just Visiting" and "He didn't come back for you".

For Ignatieff though - the substance of the ads wasn't exactly his resume.  It didn't talk about him being a Harvard professor, or a professor in Europe - it was just that he'd lived most of his life outside of Canada.

(It's perhaps worth noting that after his defeat Ignatieff returned to Harvard)

So will those kind of attacks work against Carney?  He has spent a fair chunk of his life outside of Canada (studied at Harvard and Oxford, worked at Goldman Sachs, Governor of the Bank of England, not sure where he lives now) - but he did spend a fair chunk of his professional life in Canada as well, which Ignatieff had not.

I still think though that when it comes to political leaders Canadians do not care about their resumes.  If they did, Ignatieff should have beat Harper (who had also spent his entire life in politics), or O'Toole should have beat Trudeau (O'Toole being the military veteran).

Personally though - I think "politics" should be seen as a profession like any other.  Something you have to gain experience in, earn your stripes in.  You can't really just come and parachute in to the top job.  The only time I can think of that happening was Brian Mulroney - and I think that is a cautionary tale.  I'll admit though that this is an unpopular opinion, and "career politician" is seen as a negative.

Harper had the benefit of at least have a Masters degree in economics and running the NCC.

[Barrister]

Harper had the benefit of at least have a Masters degree in economics and running the NCC.

So I am second to few in being a Harper fanboy, but a MA in Economics isn't that impressive, and the NCC is just a political lobby group.  I don't want to get into comparing various institutions because I like U of Calgary, but Mark Carney has a doctorate in Economics from Oxford.

And I say that acknowledging the law firm I articled for represented the NCC in some interesting Charter litigation while Harper was in charge.  I even had some very minor involvement (I filed some of the documents in court).

Stephen Harper did write my favourite book written by a politician ever - yes it was the one about hockey.

Heck - I even met Harper twice.  Once I got a picture with him at a Reform Party convention - I think in 1994.  I also met him when he was first running for leader of the Canadian Alliance in 2001.  Nice enough man, but never struck me as a natural politician.  Very different from what I understand Trudeau to be like.

[Barrister]

All other things being equal, I agree they usually don't matter.  Except when there is a dearth of people running who are good candidates.  Like now.

I feel like we're just going back and forth on this one.

I think you're wrong, and seeing the world how you wish it to be, rather than how it is.

Time will tell.

[Grey Fox]

Harper's Hockey book is pretty good, yes.