[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Admiral Yi]

The defense argument would be that any anonymous source, must be treated with the due amount of skepticism.

[crazy canuck]

The defense argument would be that any anonymous source, must be treated with the due amount of skepticism.

That is why Global had two independent sources before they broke the story.

[Josephus]

Shitty if true

Why the qualifier?  The report is sourced to "two separate national security sources" and said "Global News has granted anonymity to sources on the Dong investigation because they face possible prosecution for sharing information on China's allegedly vast subversion of Canada's democracy, including clandestine interference in the 2019 and 2021 federal elections."

Spoken like a true prosecutor.

I am a true prosecutor.  You know that.

Any part of what I said you disagree with?

No, Beeb. I was just breaking your balls.
 

My only argument is that the guy has not been found guilty of anything.

[Josephus]

....and he has now hired lawyers and intends to go after Global to begin legal action "to its fullest".

Defamation, I presume.

[viper37]

....and he has now hired lawyers and intends to go after Global to begin legal action "to its fullest".

Defamation, I presume.

Yes, defamation.

Global will likely be in a tight spot.  They would need to provide anonymous transcript, I guess?

[Sheilbh]

Not sure about Canada but generally truth is a difficult defence in defamation cases. The bar of "truth" is quite high, but also when you're dealing with anonymous sources or whistleblowers that you need to protect it's more or less impossible.

I'm not sure what Canadian law on this is but I'd expect there's something like a "public interest" defence where what you need to show is that you were engaged in responsible journalism, you checked sources, you verified, gave an opportunity to comment, tone etc - and that what you published is in the public interest.

A lot of what legal teams in media companies spend their time doing is making sure they're on the right side of public interest because it is so hard to establish "truth" in a court. It's also why in the UK the oligarch/rich trying to stop reporting are now primarily using privacy law and not defamation, because there is no public interest defence to misuse of private information.

[viper37]

Medias are allowed a lot of leeway an can generally get away with some lying in their texts.  They generally have to prove it was of public interest, as you say, and that the core of their message was true. 

I just don't know how they can go about it and preserve the anonymity of their sources.  They say they have transcripts, but they are likely anonymous.  In the past, Canadian courts have not been kind toward journalists who wanted to protect their sources, but the law was changed in 2017.

[Jacob]

A twitter thread from Karen Woods from back when this story first broke, adding a bunch of IMO interesting context.

Karen Woods 林爷 🇺🇦🇨🇦🌻
@KarenWenLin
Feb 27

🧵1. So, I've been watching the media, CSIS and the PMO going at the whole Election Interference story from the sideline, and it kinda felt like Deja Vu all over again. I will break this down for you from the POV of the media, #CSIS and the Chinese Consulate. #China #cdnpoli

@globeandmail's reports on the China's #election #interference, you'll know, it's all allegations so far. Some of which are true, others are just "urban legends". why is that? Cuz CSIS doesn't have a foot hold in the Chinese Disapora #cdnpoli

The way CSIS conducts theses "investigations" are mostly through interviews with people who understand the Chinese community, or a member of the Chinese Overseas Designated Community Leaders 侨领系统。 And they don't have to speak to CSIS...at all.
#cdnpoli

This creates an interesting dynamic. e.g how would CSIS even know that the Chinese Consulate is reimbursing (partial) political donations w/o even looking into the Chinese Consulate's bank accounts and transactions? They Don't!! Coz someone from the Oversea Designated (cont'd)

Community Program 侨领系统 told CSIS. They did that cuz they were pissed off at Michael Chan & Han Dong. Someone ate someone else's lunch a little too much  if you know what I mean 😎. And don't forget when CSIS talked to you, you can lie to them. It's not illegal. #cdnpoli

I previously worked for a lobbying firm that had a contract with the Chinese Consulate. I did very little on that file cuz I wanted to focus on other clients and be in the media. My colleague worked on most of that file . The firm registered in the lobby registry.
#cdnpoli

In 2019, just before the federal election, CSIS talked to me coz they wanted to gauge where the Chinese community was through KOLs, community leaders and even members of China's United Front. CSIS was worried about foreign election too. CCPAC, a non profit (cont'd) #cdnpoli

.. that I co-founded was conducting some research in the Chinese Diaspora. So I was happy to share our findings with CSIS. I told them one shouldn't underestimate the support for #Beijing in the mainland Chinese Disapora even w/t the #antielab movement in #hongkong
#cdnpoli

Now back to Michael Chan and Han Dong. They both know who I am. Han Dong and I went to the same high school. He's older than me. It's No question that Michael Chan has always been very pro China. He's is under China's influence. We don't need CSIS to tell us that. #cdnpoli

Back in 2019, Michael Chan organized a pro Hong Kong police, pro stability rally at the peak of the HK Anti Extradition rally. In the same rally, Han Dong passed nomination forms around to sign up for new members cuz he was running in the DVN liberal nomination race to replace

the disgraced former MP Geng Tan. Tan had an extra marital affair that resulted in a daughter born out of wedlock. It's not that the Chinese Consulate preferred Han Dong. It's cuz Geng Tan had sexual scandals attached to his name. And this is where CSIS  got it wrong. #cdnpoli

My guess is that the person they talked to had a language barrier so context was lost. And Han Dong won his nomination by a razor thin margin, less than 50 votes. He had the help of Wei Cheng Yi , a well known Chinese Oversea Designated Community Leader, helping him sign up ppl.

So, did the Chinese Consulate help Han Dong win his nomination? Yes and No. Wei Cheng Yi is a proxy for the Chinese Consulate. By virtual of him helping Han, one *could* claim Han is the Chinese Consulate's preferred candidate. But that is not the case!! Cuz the other candidate

Jiang Banggu is also very China Friendly. So essentially, the Chinese Consulate had no skin in the game whether or Not Han or Jiang wins in the end, they will get a "pro China" Liberal MP. But here is the thing, Han is Michael Chan's candidate.

Michael Chan even brought Steven Del Duca to Han Dong's nomination. He pissed off people who were loyal to him but didn't want Han to win. It's very possible that they then talked to CSIS. How else would CSIS know about the supposedly $250K Consultate election funds 🤷 if CSIS

never talked the Michael Chan, never looked into his bank account or tax? An in-fight within the Chinese Oversea Designated Community 侨领 circle is what made people leak to CSIS cuz they hate Michael Chan. And the Consulate is trying to put a lid on the in-fight.

A Chinese diplomat once told me part of their job is also to "smooth things over" among pro China community groups and that is Not surprising at all. They all eat and drink from the same well. There is definitely competition. Now back to CSIS. What I find strange is its former

boss Richard Fadden is saying completely different things than its current director. Richard Fadden says he's worried about Chinese interference, and his succesor says China's interference didn't impact the outcome of the election. And the PMO denied being briefed by CSIS prior..

There is a power play in CSIS. And CSIS has become very political. People need to understand that CSIS is not law enforcement. With this amount of allegations, why hasn't the RCMP moved at all? What exactly is CSIS' objectives when they supposedly leaked to
@globalnews ? #cdnpoli

The media of course has its own narrative. "Anti China" is the trend now, so they will chase after that even if no trials, no criminal investigations result from this. They don't care. The news cycle moves fast. Even if Trudeau decides eventually that the media attention isn't

going away and he's going to throw Han Dong under the bus, so what? It just surprises me that CSIS has been monitoring Michael Chan for 10 years and they never once talked to him, or even looked at his bank account, and not once investigated him?? Is this Not Strange?

https://twitter.com/KarenWenLin/status/1630413714435330048

[viper37]

Lots of things in there.  It's almost as if it's written to discredit CSIS.

Let's start with this:

This creates an interesting dynamic. e.g how would CSIS even know that the Chinese Consulate is reimbursing (partial) political donations w/o even looking into the Chinese Consulate's bank accounts and transactions? They Don't!! Coz someone from the Oversea Designated (cont'd)

This is an intelligence agency, not a police force that will bring evidence to a trial.

So, the way they work is, yes, interviews, but also, they will look into bank accounts of the suspect(s) and tied organizations and follow the money trails back to where it leads.  So, there's a 250 000$ donation.  Where did it come from?  Company X?  Who owns X?  ABC Ltd owned by ZXB? ZXB owned by BCF?  BCF is also known to be a front for a bank known to be used by the government of China.  So, this is how they find things and start to make links. 

And they exchange information with partners on a regular basis and cross-reference information.

It's not 99% interviews.

and his succesor says China's interference didn't impact the outcome of the election.

This, I addressed before.  It's all a question of wording.

And the PMO denied being briefed by CSIS prior..

And this, we know is a lie.

[viper37]

Budget day.

A few weeks ago, Canada was on track to reign in the deficit within 5 years.  Now we have 5 more years of deficit.

There is a new dental plan, pretty much available to families at minimum wage.  I won't benefit without the copay.  With 650$ it won't pay much though.  My latest estimate put it above 1000$ for each necessary treatments. I guess I'll have to wait for each ones.  I suppose with increase demand it will also jack up the prices for the basic services.

80 billions for green energy transition.  Vague enough to not alarm our neighbours.  Quite possibly the best thing of the budget, but the Libs will fuck it up, as usual.

The promise of cutting expenses on external consultants and unnecessary travel expenses is all bullshit of course.

The rest in underwhelming.  The NDP will vote for the budget, obviously.  Chinese interference in our electoral process be damn, we have dental care for minimum wage earners.

EDIT:
There is an increase on the minimum tax for the very rich.  That seems nice.  I need to read more about this, to see if it really closes any loopholes.

[viper37]

Sometimes, I feel desperate.

I wonder if I have a place on this Earth.

Cautgh between extreme far left morons who canz't see the light and are wiling to lynch every AirB'n'B owner in Montreal for the death of these 7 poor victims caught in some dumpster appartment that caught fire with no fire exit.  A city inspector broke his ankle trying to inspect the fire ladders.  There were probably more rooms tha  the local zoning laws allowed.  But its all good, airbnb is to blame, certainly not the city.

Then we have this Federal budget.
"Massive tax hike on the middle classe".
Dude!  You gotta earn  some 10M$ in capital gaims to feel the pain on this new tax!  How are you middle class ??
Where are they even getting these talking points?!

And Trudeau's groceries, at 10K$/month, like he was feeding champagne and kaviar to his kids every day dhh!  obviously, it's for the entire house, with the staff and the guests, and the expenses were the same under Harper.

Why are peope so, so dumb??  Left and right, I feel assaulted by an army of zombies trying to make it to my island of sanity.

Maybe I should strop Reddit and this whole internet thing.  I am not in a great shape.  Soon, I'll beleive jist like GF that humanity is a disease that should be extirpated from this planet. We'll all embark on these Elon Arks and go destroy Mars instead. 

[Grey Fox]

Interesting take on my opinions.

Josephus thinks I am an unabashed optimist while you just opined the opposite.

People are dumb and don't understand money & especially taxes. Make peace with it.

[Jacob]

A bit OT, but how similar is the Canadian "eh" to the French "hein"?

[Grey Fox]

If it's an harder sounding eh, than say in southern Ontario, it sounds kinda alike.

In use, I'd say that hein has more use than eh but it is possible they are use in the same way.

[Jacob]

If it's an harder sounding eh, than say in southern Ontario, it sounds kinda alike.

In use, I'd say that hein has more use than eh but it is possible they are use in the same way.

Interesting.

I wonder if the Canadian "eh" is derived or evolved from the "hein" or if they're unrelated.