[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Grey Fox]

Weird way to see it. Also, a politically impossible thing to change.

The Jason Kenney led equalisation formula weighs more heavily high tax & high spending jurisdiction. Quebec is the highest at that so we get a lot from it.

Raising our residential electricity cost by 200% wouldn't change any of that.

[HVC]

Weird way to see it. Also, a politically impossible thing to change.

The Jason Kenney led equalisation formula weighs more heavily high tax & high spending jurisdiction. Quebec is the highest at that so we get a lot from it.

Raising our residential electricity cost by 200% wouldn't change any of that.

Even if you don't see it as a direct subsidy Quebec is still reducing its provincial revenues, thus increasing its equalization payments. End effect is the same.

Edit* and I just mentioned the energy component because viper brought up energy subsidies.

[Grey Fox]

Yes, it's the same old whataboutism argument. When Quebec complains it's treated unfairly in regards to a federal subsidy an entire class of pundits answers with "You get more equilization payment"

Like that has to do with anything. EQ has a strict formula. Change it if it's not working.

[HVC]

Yes, it's the same old whataboutism argument. When Quebec complains it's treated unfairly in regards to a federal subsidy an entire class of pundits answers with "You get more equilization payment"

Like that has to do with anything. EQ has a strict formula. Change it if it's not working.

Like you said, it's politically impossible to do so the EQ formula is based on personal income taxes, business income taxes, consumption taxes, up to 50 percent of natural resource revenue, and property taxes and miscellaneous. Quebec lowers two of those values (natural resources and personal income tax through the Quebec Abatement). They game the system to get more, just like any province would if the could, really.

and once again my posts are tied to Vipers claims in this thread.

[viper37]

I said below market, not below cost . Between 2005 and 2010 Quebec lost 28.6 billion in revenue by selling domestic energy below cost. 14.3 billion of this was reimbursed to Quebec through equalization payments. That's 34% of quebecs total equalization payments receive for that period. So energy was half subsidized by the province and half the feds.  Seems like a pretty big subsidy to me.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/peter-holle-artificially-cheap-hydro-power-your-equalization-dollars-at-work

It's pretty difficult to determine what would be the true market price of hydro power.  Hydro power is cheaper to produce than gaz power or nuclear power.  It is true that if you peg hydro prices to other energy price, electricity costs will be higher, as is the case in the US and in Europe.  Incidentally, Hydro is making a killing in the US market right now.

The article also discusses 7$ a day daycare, a model the Feds wants to emulate now.  You can also add medicare to the list.

[viper37]

Yes, it's the same old whataboutism argument. When Quebec complains it's treated unfairly in regards to a federal subsidy an entire class of pundits answers with "You get more equilization payment"

Like that has to do with anything. EQ has a strict formula. Change it if it's not working.

Like you said, it's politically impossible to do so the EQ formula is based on personal income taxes, business income taxes, consumption taxes, up to 50 percent of natural resource revenue, and property taxes and miscellaneous. Quebec lowers two of those values (natural resources and personal income tax through the Quebec Abatement). They game the system to get more, just like any province would if the could, really.

and once again my posts are tied to Vipers claims in this thread.

We don't "game" the system in any way.  Hydro electricity was entirely developed by Quebec with no subsidies or loans from the Federal government whatsoever and Quebec had to borrow from the Americans because the Feds tried tried to prevent the last step of the program from going on.  We pay a fair price for electricity considering what is costs to produces and acquire.  If we had to burn coal to produce it, it could be a point.

Income tax receives an abatement because we have our own tax system, our own revenue agency.  You chose to leave everything in the hands of the Feds and then complain you can't get anything done without their help (nuclear power, hydro dams in NF, medicare, daycare, dentalcare) while Quebec has done everything by itself.   I disagree with many of these models, but its besides the point.  If provinces wants these programs, they can develop them themselves and stop whining.  If they thing equalization is unfair, they can change the Constitution.  Last I remember, they had not problem changing it without Quebec's consent the last time.

[PRC]

Danielle Smith now comes out saying National Park revenues should stay in Alberta.  Noticeably absent from her comments are National Park expenses. 

[Grey Fox]

Does Alberta have a provincial park network?

[Malthus]

A sports interlude among the politics - Toronto Argos won the Grey Cup, defeating Winnipeg.

Apparently it was a great game.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6658338

[Josephus]

 

[viper37]

A sports interlude among the politics - Toronto Argos won the Grey Cup, defeating Winnipeg.

Apparently it was a great game.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6658338

Didn't realize that was yesterday, thought it was the next, same time as Vanier cup.   Damn.

[Malthus]

Quiet, you.

I'm trying to interest BB. 

[Barrister]

A sports interlude among the politics - Toronto Argos won the Grey Cup, defeating Winnipeg.

Apparently it was a great game.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6658338

Annoyingly I didn't get to watch much of the game - middle kid Andrew had a hockey game that conflicted.  We did listen to the last few minutes in the car, and got home in time to see Winnipeg's blocked kick that cost them the game.

Toronto is always doing that it seems - they're undefeated in their last 6-7 Grey Cup appearances, going back to the 1980s.  They sneak in with a crappy team and somehow win the game.  And then nobody in Toronto cares.

[ulmont]

A sports interlude among the politics - Toronto Argos won the Grey Cup, defeating Winnipeg.

Apparently it was a great game.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6658338

I caught the last 10 minutes or so, and yes, it was great.

[Valmy]

Toronto might as well care because the Leafs are never winning anything.