Crusader Kings 2 Redux

[Martinus]

Btw, did they ever do anything about being able to transfer duchy vassals? It seems a bit odd that as the Byzantine Empire, I get a negative malus from my vassal - Despot of Croatia, because he wants the Duchy of Dalmatia but I can't hand that vassal over to him. Best I can do is free revoke and then give him the duchy - as far as I can tell.

I don't recall having a problem with transferring vassals but then I don't play emperors that often so this is usually limited to counts and barons.

Perhaps this has something to do with you being able to revoke Ducal titles "for free" (which is Byzantium's unique feature).

[garbon]

Kinda odd opening post:

When it comes to the Big Three of DLC desired by the fans, the only one I really care about is Playable Pagans - I don't mind not playing as Theocracies or, as will be available to us as of January 14th, Republics. I'm still on two minds whether or not I'll buy the upcoming DLC (It sounds great, don't get me wrong, I just have things going on in other aspects of life that would keep me from playing as much as I'd like), but a term being bandied around by Dev Diaries gives me some cause to feel hopeful for the future: "Patrician Families."

Not only does it apparently give those of us who wanted playable barons the right to play a, sort of, republican baron, but it creates a very interesting roleplaying scenario (Agnatic Seniority succession in patrician families sounds something like the Mafia or whatever) for those who like to RP their games a lot, myself included. If I do make the effort to buy the new DLC I'll be looking forwards to seeing how patricians will fit in with the wider scope of feudal lords and how, if it's possible at all, a son of a patrician can become a feudal lord in his own right (a lot of my plans for the upcoming DLC involve starting off as a republican family and eventually becoming feudal lords, so, I'm hoping there's a way to cross between the two).

There's something else that patrician families lay the groundwork for, and it's the first time I've actually been excited about the prospect. As I said, Pagans were the only major DLC I really wanted, with Theocracies coming in a distant third behind the Republics. The new Patrician game mechanic, however, changes things slightly - the Pornocracy has been mentioned on these forums a couple of times, a period also known as the Dark Age of the Papacy when a single Roman patrician family was able to influence a succession of popes. Patricians played a part, so, in the Papacy as much as they did in the merchant republics of the time. In a future DLC making Theocracies playable, the Papacy and College of Cardinals could be influenced by a combination of feudal and patrician factors; combining the two worlds would be interesting and be a challenging new gameplay element. For the first time, I'm actually looking forwards to a possible Theocracy DLC in the future; and just writing this thread has convinced me to buy the Republic DLC in ten days time. Brilliant!

[garbon]

Tell me if you've learned any of the following from tooltips then please:

If my liege has called up my troops, and I declare war on him, do my levies come back home?

As far as I know, yes. They definitely aren't his anymore.

How are war and conquest with Muslims and pagans handled?  Do you now need a war score and a settlement, or do you still automatically get whatever you control?

You either declare war via a claim or via holy war (with the latter more likely to bring a game of heathen nations in on the defense). And yes you need war score / only keep whatever it was you declared war for (so like duchy of Antioch from Fatimids). Different, of course for crusade.

The tooltip under independence war said the war automatically ends if my leader dies.  What happens to my troops?  Is there any reason I can't just restart the war under my new leader?

Your troops are still raised but you aren't at war.

[garbon]

Btw, did they ever do anything about being able to transfer duchy vassals? It seems a bit odd that as the Byzantine Empire, I get a negative malus from my vassal - Despot of Croatia, because he wants the Duchy of Dalmatia but I can't hand that vassal over to him. Best I can do is free revoke and then give him the duchy - as far as I can tell.

I don't recall having a problem with transferring vassals but then I don't play emperors that often so this is usually limited to counts and barons.

Perhaps this has something to do with you being able to revoke Ducal titles "for free" (which is Byzantium's unique feature).

I guess I'll have to try as HRE. Count and barony transfers are no issue, just the ducal transfer.

[Valmy]

How are war and conquest with Muslims and pagans handled?  Do you now need a war score and a settlement, or do you still automatically get whatever you control?

This is pretty self-explanatory.  The possible outcomes of the war (win, lose, or white peace) is always spelled out before you declare.  You need a war score and settlement.

[Admiral Yi]

Gracias muchachos.  Does that mean you need a claim even for infidel war?

[garbon]

How are war and conquest with Muslims and pagans handled?  Do you now need a war score and a settlement, or do you still automatically get whatever you control?

This is pretty self-explanatory.  The possible outcomes of the war (win, lose, or white peace) is always spelled out before you declare.  You need a war score and settlement.

Yeah it actually is in the tool tip.

One thing p'dox could improve on war declarataion tooltips though is when you press a claim for a courtier in your court. Current text just says you'll get them as vassal if they are currently a vassal or a member of your dynasty. Not quite right as if you press a claim for a family member on a title that is the same level as your own - they remain independent.  CK2+ actually had that tooltip let you know definitively yes or no that you were going to get the claimant as a vassal.

[garbon]

Gracias muchachos.  Does that mean you need a claim even for infidel war?

Claim or use holy war function. The latter can be more dangerous as they will likely get more of their co-religionists to join in - though given that muslims intermarry so much, you'll often get a lot of co-religionists to join in if you press a claim on a muslim country.

[Valmy]

Gracias muchachos.  Does that mean you need a claim even for infidel war?

No.  You can take an entire duchy (but no more...) in a holy war.  You can also fight them for claims though, I think that subtley influences the impact of victory or defeat but otherwise I don't think it makes a big difference.

[Valmy]

Claim or use holy war function. The latter can be more dangerous as they will likely get more of their co-religionists to join in

Oh yeah that is why it is a little better to fight for claims.

[Martinus]

garbon's responses are not complete and thus can be quite unsatisfactory.

If my liege has called up my troops, and I declare war on him, do my levies come back home?

Yes, but (I think) you get the penalty for disbanding the levies out of your own territory - so you will not get the full levies home and will need to wait a while for them to be reinforced to full level.

How are war and conquest with Muslims and pagans handled?  Do you now need a war score and a settlement, or do you still automatically get whatever you control?

There is no mechanical difference from wars between Christians when it comes to a war score.

The main difference is that you get an additional, different casus belling against non-believers called a holy war, which allows you to claim entire duchy from them and if you win, you gain control of each holding in the duchy in question held by the target of your war or his vassals (as opposed to a normal claim, which only gives you control of the title you had a claim on). The tricky part about a holy war is that his fellow non-believers are much more likely to come to his help (even if they are not formal allies) and they may get help from holy orders (being a defender in a holy war allows you to recruit holy orders for free, too) so unless you are really powerful, you will get curb-stomped. This is why, when you are just doing some minor war against pagans or muslims (e.g. in early Spanish reconquista) it is better to go about it the normal route (i.e. either by fabricating claims or pressing de jure claims you may have).

The tooltip under independence war said the war automatically ends if my leader dies.  What happens to my troops?  Is there any reason I can't just restart the war under my new leader?

Yes, but before you can restart the war, you will have to disband your levies (and if they are outside of your own territory, you will first want to move them to your own territory, so that you do not get "lost troops" due to disbanding outside of your realm).

Obviously, any progress in the old war is lost (you lose any occupied holdings and the war score is reset).

[garbon]

garbon's responses are not complete and thus can be quite unsatisfactory.

Well the bits you explained further on the latter two questions are explained in tool tips.

[Admiral Yi]

Yes, but before you can restart the war, you will have to disband your levies (and if they are outside of your own territory, you will first want to move them to your own territory, so that you do not get "lost troops" due to disbanding outside of your realm).

I forgot about this new wrinkle.  Biggest advantage in CK I was lining up all your troops before you declared war.

[garbon]

garbon's responses are not complete and thus can be quite unsatisfactory.

Well the bits you explained further on the latter two questions are explained in tool tips.

Actually the holy war bit isn't even in a tool tip, but rather displays in a text box if you click on a holy war claim.

[Martinus]

Yes, but before you can restart the war, you will have to disband your levies (and if they are outside of your own territory, you will first want to move them to your own territory, so that you do not get "lost troops" due to disbanding outside of your realm).

I forgot about this new wrinkle.  Biggest advantage in CK I was lining up all your troops before you declared war.

You can still do it with your retinues and mercenaries in CK2 (you just can't have them stationed directly on your enemy's land, but you could line them up in neighboring provinces). Obviously, this comes with a little caveat that retinues are scarce and mercenaries are very expensive.