Crusader Kings 2 Redux

[garbon]

Johan has repeatedly said that gameplay improvements for CK2 would come through patches, not DLCs. DLCs are for things that are not necessary to the gameplay itself, like graphics, music, sprites, or quaint sets of events.

While that makes sense on the DLCs that doesn't really seem to jive with Paradox's historical patterns of behavior. They are suddenly going to provide overhauls for free through patches - or are overhauls going the way of the dodo?

[Syt]

So, because many Paradox veterans wait to buy their releases until they're patched, they now try to incentivize pre-orders/first day purchase by withholding content unless you buy early? That doesn't seem like the right approach to me.

Also, I find this nickel-and-diming with their DLCs annoying. For the most part I've avoided this, because I don't really care if there's an extra sprite in EU3 that gets used for <10% of the game time or whatever.

But things like CoAs from some of the big dynasties, or accurate facial features for the Mongols . . . that's a bit rich.

[Syt]

Johan has repeatedly said that gameplay improvements for CK2 would come through patches, not DLCs. DLCs are for things that are not necessary to the gameplay itself, like graphics, music, sprites, or quaint sets of events.

While that makes sense on the DLCs that doesn't really seem to jive with Paradox's historical patterns of behavior. They are suddenly going to provide overhauls for free through patches - or are overhauls going the way of the dodo?

I don't buy too far into the "no expansion" propaganda just yet. How many "final expansions" have there been for EU3?

[Camerus]

Every change in patching and expansion policy from P-dox since EU2 has been detrimental to the customer.  First, you had the many free-of-charge patches for EU2, which vastly improved game play and added new features.  But then, after that you got a change in policy, which brought poorly working releases, which now required costly add-ons in order to work properly.  It soon became the case that you needed numerous expansions to make the damn thing playable.  Now, they are saying that now all updates in features will be charged.  They can't blame one for being suspicious....

[Kleves]

This DLC stuff seems pretty shitty. I don't mind that they're giving away some exclusive content for preordering - lots of game companies do that. What bugs me is how cheap and lazy Paradox is
becoming. What they're giving away is stuff that should have been in the final game. Are we expected to believe that no one at Paradox realized until late in the beta that Mongols were not from Arabia, or that in a game that includes coats of arms and historical lineages it might be a good idea to include historical coat of arms for the lineages? Of course they realized this, but rather than creating new content (or at least content that was not so elementary) in the DLC, they just lopped off some of the old and figured they'd charge extra for it.

[garbon]

Well didn't they get away with Mongols use the same Arab faces in CK? Maybe they thought they could do the same.

[Barrister]

This DLC stuff seems pretty shitty. I don't mind that they're giving away some exclusive content for preordering - lots of game companies do that. What bugs me is how cheap and lazy Paradox is
becoming. What they're giving away is stuff that should have been in the final game. Are we expected to believe that no one at Paradox realized until late in the beta that Mongols were not from Arabia,
or that in a game that includes coats of arms and historical lineages it might be a good idea to include historical coat of arms for the lineages? Of course they realized this, but rather than creating new
content (or at least content that was not so elementary) in the DLC, they just lopped off some of the old and figured they'd charge extra for it.

Except that in CK1 the Mongols did not have different faces, and the game did not include special unique coats of arms for specific dynasties.  There's no reason these items would have automatically been included in the final game.

[Valmy]

or that in a game that includes coats of arms and historical lineages it might be a good idea to include historical coat of arms for the lineages? Of course they realized this, but rather than creating new
content (or at least content that was not so elementary) in the DLC, they just lopped off some of the old and figured they'd charge extra for it.

Except there was no such thing as a coat of arms for a lineage.  Heck even having arms at all in 1066 is silly but doubly so for the very modern notion that they are connected to a family.  When Richard I officially designed his arms it was the Arms of the King of England not the Angevin family.

So I do not think I even want that silly feature even if they are some sort of placeholder alongside the Arms of the fiefdom they rule over. 

[garbon]

This DLC stuff seems pretty shitty. I don't mind that they're giving away some exclusive content for preordering - lots of game companies do that. What bugs me is how cheap and lazy Paradox is
becoming. What they're giving away is stuff that should have been in the final game. Are we expected to believe that no one at Paradox realized until late in the beta that Mongols were not from Arabia,
or that in a game that includes coats of arms and historical lineages it might be a good idea to include historical coat of arms for the lineages? Of course they realized this, but rather than creating new
content (or at least content that was not so elementary) in the DLC, they just lopped off some of the old and figured they'd charge extra for it.

Except that in CK1 the Mongols did not have different faces, and the game did not include special unique coats of arms for specific dynasties.  There's no reason these items would have automatically been included in the final game.

Except that the latter wouldn't have made sense in CK1. There were no coat of arms for specific dynasties.  Adding in that feature but then adding random CoAs seems odd.

[Valmy]

I just want a nonfunctional poorly designed game that is really fun to play like CK1, I figured Paradox was the perfect company to develop such a game.  Surely they cannot fuck up something so perfect for them?  At least these DLC's sound harmless and pointless and not 'get an extra province building' or something really concerning.

[Kleves]

Except that in CK1 the Mongols did not have different faces, and the game did not include special unique coats of arms for specific dynasties.  There's no reason these items would have automatically been included in the final game.

Presumably CK2 will have numerous features that didn't appear in CK1. I don't want Paradox making all of them DLC. In any case, I really don't care about either the Mongol faces or the
coat of arms. What bugs me is that these things are so basic, given what features they're including in CK2 (i.e. coats of arms and character faces). I mean, what's next, DLC for adding female faces, or mouse-functionality? These are things that must have been identified early in the development process, and should have been included in the retail game.

[Barrister]

Except that in CK1 the Mongols did not have different faces, and the game did not include special unique coats of arms for specific dynasties.  There's no reason these items would have automatically been included in the final game.

Presumably CK2 will have numerous features that didn't appear in CK1. I don't want Paradox making all of them DLC. In any case, I really don't care about either the Mongol faces or the
coat of arms. What bugs me is that these things are so basic, given what features they're including in CK2 (i.e. coats of arms and character faces). I mean, what's next, DLC for adding female faces, or mouse-functionality? These are things that must have been identified early in the development process, and should have been included in the retail game.

Personally I don't care too much about additional features.  I just want a CK that works.

[szmik]

Personally I don't care too much about additional features.  I just want a CK that works.

whatever works means it's Paradox

[Barrister]

Personally I don't care too much about additional features.  I just want a CK that works.

whatever works means it's Paradox

EU3 seems like it fundamentally works.  Certainly a lot more so than CK does.

[katmai]

Waiting till Holidays when it's on sale with third or fourth expansion.